minutes: User Agent telecon 6 Feb 2013

from http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 06 Feb 2014

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jim_Allan, JanRegretsKellyChairJimAllan,
KellyFordScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Mobile Taskforce<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. SB02 - 1.8.7 <http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. SB05: Re 2.9.1<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#item03>
   - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 06 February 2014

<scribe> scribe: allanj
Mobile Taskforce

<KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page

examples are technical. no personae involved

people integrated in examples

ja: are the techniques for WCAG and UAAG?

kp: WCAG
... mapping WCAG to mobile...which apply, which don't

js: lots of feedback from the wild that WCAG doesn't apply to mobile...but
it does

jr: is the group strictly limited to Web technologies. What about native
accessibility apps.
... ala BBC mobile guidelines

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/mobile_access.shtml

gl: apply wcag to applications not just web document

ja: this is what new 508 says...wcag applies to web and software...no
difference

jr: created a mapping between BBC and WCAG for ICT. need techniques for
platforms
... BBC has that, but reordered renumbered everything
... JR created a WCAG based mapping, with new stuff

ja: WCAG2ICT should include mobile

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0026.html
SB02 - 1.8.7

jr: reviewing Action 938
... multi-column PDF can be reflowed

<Jan> 1.8.X Multi-Column Text Reflow: The user can specify that recognized
multi-column text blocks be reflowed into a single column.

gl: want each text block to reflow separately

jr: many divs, if the text in a div is multicolumn, then that would be
reflowed but the div would stay in place.

<Jan> 1.8.X Multi-Column Text Reflow: The user can specify that recognized
multi-column text blocks be reflowed into single column text blocks.

js: don't want to apply to tables

jr: well...apply to table cells, not the entire table.
... simple case, if UA can tell it is multi-column then can be fixed.

<Greg> "*each* recognized multi-column text block be reflowed into a single
column text block."

proposed new 1.4

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print the rendered content, and the following
are all true: (Level AA)

- any rendered, visual, non-time-based content can be printed,

- the user can choose between available printing devices,

- the user can choose to print content as it is rendered on screen,
reflecting any user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications,

- the user can choose to have the printed content reflow as if the
top-level viewport had been resized to match the horizontal dimensions of
the printing device.

Proposal 5: Move all mention of vertical languages to a global
applicability note:

Vertical layout languages: For user agents rendering, vertical layout
languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han), success criteria relating to horizontal
rendering, should be applied to vertical rendering.

Strawman 1: One idea for facilitating reflow is allowing user to remove
absolute sizes, allowing the browser's own reflowing system to work:

1.8.X Toggle absolute layout dimensions: The user can specify whether or
not the user agent should observe absolute layout dimensions.

jr: if user suspends all absolute layout dimension, the UA will reflow

gl: how is 'absolute' defined.
... 20%
... if relative, then it still doesn't linearize the page

jr: Strawman 2: What about requiring a linearize feature at AA or AAA?
(e.g. the FireFox's "Linearize Page" feature seems very straightforward
http://forums.chrispederick.com/discussion/328/page-linearization)

extension: http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/firefox/

ja: how is the UA to know what is multi-columns

<Jan> JR: Absolute is px etc. not %

<Jan> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css3_multiple_columns.asp

jr: recognized CSS multi-column

recap: create 3 new SC - multi-column, linearize, remove absolute

remove 1.8.7

reword 1.4.4

gl: 1.4.4 printing 3rd bullet. is this to avoid author defined style sheet.
may need to make it explicit.
... may be handled in the Intent.

ja: UA not printing all text on the page, usually a css error on author
part, element widths+ borders+margins+ padding is greater that 100%

gl: all of these changes will be made to the 1 comment SB03

jr: "the group rethought our approach to reflow and created these
changes..."

ja: is there any simpler way?

js: these are very clear, and have covered the bases.

ja: then we would need IER for all

gl: these need Levels

jr: need another pass to clean up for SC.

proposal: Vertical layout languages: For user agents rendering, vertical
layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han), success criteria relating to
horizontal rendering, should be applied to vertical rendering.

add as applicability note

js: good to reference in Intents for relevant SC.

no objections

Resolution: Include "Vertical layout languages: For user agents rendering,
vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han), success criteria relating
to horizontal rendering, should be applied to vertical rendering." as
applicability note

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to link to the applicability note on vertical
language to each of the intent sections of SCs that refer to layout.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-939 - Link to the applicability note on vertical
language to each of the intent sections of scs that refer to layout. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-02-13].

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add new applicability note on Vertical Layout
Languages to the general applicability section. See the minutes of 6 Feb
2014. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-940 - Add new applicability note on vertical
layout languages to the general applicability section. see the minutes of 6
feb 2014. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-02-13].
SB05: Re 2.9.1

(Adjustable Time Limits) "the user can extend the time limits", would it be
a good idea to add "indefinitely"? Just in case some developer thinks "just
let them have a 50% extension".

2.9.1 Adjustable Time Limits: Where time limits for user input are
recognized and controllable by the user agent, the user can extend the time
limits. (Level A)

jr: citing jennifer example, this is a huge security issue for financial
sites.
... spoofing the user presence

ja: know of no UA that impose time limits

gl: may be technologies with time limits built in,
... things in UAUI, you say exit...do you want to save changes, answer in
30 sec or close without saving.
... prompt for time-out in HTML
... examples.

ja: News site - new stories. Banking site - security.

gl: what is recognized?

jr: can't stop server-side refresh, if html timer element, then if UA
recognized, then user could say always hit time element x number of times
... dial back in UAUI, close in 30 sec. otherwise defer to WCAG.

gl: if in the future, technologies create some timing element, would want
the UA to be able to override if author did it wrong.
... don't know of any real life cases.
... could remove, but reword for specific UAUI use case

js: consider pulling it. covered by WCAG, but add the UAUI

<Jan> Re; User agent interfaces...we already have: 5.1.1 Comply with WCAG:
Web-based user agent user interfaces meet the WCAG 2.0 success criteria.

js: indefinitely is a security loophole.

gl: nothing like this exists today.

js: too risky, for global for indefinite timing.

<Greg> I think we should include this for UA UI, and I see no harm in
including it for *recognized* timeouts declared in content (because there
are none of those in any of today's document formats, as far as I know; it
would not apply to any of today's script-driven or server-driven time
limits).

<Greg> But since time limit declarations aren't used today (as far as I
know), leaving it out won't have any negative effects in the short term,
only in the future when and if such declarations are defined.

jr: need it for UAUI. 5.1.1 only applies to web interfaces.
... what about wcag2ict

http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/#time-limits-required-behaviors

ja: do we reword for UAUI use case, or remove totally

js: use case?

gl: things in UAUI, you say exit...do you want to save changes, answer in
30 sec or close without saving.

<Greg> Example of UA UI: User closes the Exit command on their web browser,
which displays a message box asking if they're sure they want to exit, with
a timer saying it will assume yes if they don't respond within 10 seconds.
User changes settings in their user options to turn off this timeout.

<Greg> Example 2: The user can hover their mouse over a link to see a
pop-up showing the destination of the link, but the popup disappears after
two seconds. Susie reads slowly, so she turns off this timeout, allowing
her to hover the mouse as long as she needs to read the text, before moving
it to allow the pop-up to disappear.

ja: tooltips!

gl: may use an OS timer, or not

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#gl_a32

all in agreement to changing 2.9.1 to be for UAUI and not author content

js: make it parallel to WCAG and ATAG

<Jan> Timing Adjustable: The user agent does not include time limits or at
least one of the following is true: (Level A)

<Jan> (a) Turn Off: Users are allowed to turn off the time limit before
encountering it; or

<Jan> (b) Adjust: Users are allowed to adjust the time limit before
encountering it over a wide range that is at least ten times the length of
the default setting; or

<Jan> (c) Extend: Users are warned before time expires and given at least
20 seconds to extend the time limit with a simple action (e.g. "press the
space bar"), and authors are allowed to extend the time limit at least ten
times; or

<Jan> (d) Real-time Exception: The time limit is a required part of a
real-time event and no alternative to the time limit is possible; or

<Jan> (e) Essential Exception: The time limit is essential and extending it
would invalidate the activity; or

<Jan> (f) 20 Hour Exception: The time limit is longer than 20 hours.

<scribe> *ACTION:* jeanne to replace 2.9.1 with the repaired text below
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-941 - Replace 2.9.1 with the repaired text below
[on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-02-13].

<Jan> Timing Adjustable: The user agent does not include time limits or at
least one of the following is true: (Level A)

<Jan> (a) Turn Off: Users are allowed to turn off the time limit before
encountering it; or

<Jan> (b) Adjust: Users are allowed to adjust the time limit before
encountering it over a wide range that is at least ten times the length of
the default setting; or

<Jan> (c) Extend: Users are warned before time expires and given at least
20 seconds to extend the time limit with a simple action (e.g. "press the
space bar"), and users are allowed to extend the time limit at least ten
times; or

<Jan> (d) Real-time Exception: The time limit is a required part of a
real-time event and no alternative to the time limit is possible; or

<Jan> (e) Essential Exception: The time limit is essential and extending it
would invalidate the activity; or

<Jan> (f) 20 Hour Exception: The time limit is longer than 20 hours.

Resolution: SB05 reword 2.9.1 to be specific to the UA controlled times
with 6 tests

<KimPatch> Example 2: Susie reads slowly. When she can hovers her mouse
over a link to see a pop-up showing the destination of the link, the popup
ordinarily disappears after two seconds, which is not enough time for her
to read it. She turns off this timeout, allowing her to hover the mouse for
as long as she needs to read the text before moving it to allow the pop-up
to disappear.

<scribe> *ACTION:* jeanne to add example 2 above for EXAMPLES for 2.9.1 in
Techniques [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-942 - Add example 2 above for examples for 2.9.1
in techniques [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-02-13].
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add example 2 above
for EXAMPLES for 2.9.1 in Techniques [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add new applicability note on Vertical Layout
Languages to the general applicability section. See the minutes of 6 Feb
2014. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to link to the applicability note on vertical
language to each of the intent sections of SCs that refer to layout.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to replace 2.9.1 with the repaired text below
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#action03]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964