Re: Minutes: User Agent telecon 22 May 2014

Late regrets and apologies – I'd double booked for part of the time and 
got back even later than I thought I might.

I did get the wiki reorganized, however.

Cheers,
Kim

On 5/22/2014 2:11 PM, Jim Allan wrote:
> from http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html
>
>
>   User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
>
>
>     22 May 2014
>
> See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-irc
> <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-irc>
>
>
>     Attendees
>
> Present
>     [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jim_Allan
> Regrets
>     Eric, Jan
> Chair
>     jimAllan, KellyFord
> Scribe
>     allanj
>
>
>     Contents
>
>   * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
>      1. Use Case 1 -5
>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#item01>
>   * Summary of Action Items
>     <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <trackbot> Date: 22 May 2014
>
> regrets Eric
>
> rrsagent: make minutes
>
> <scribe> scribe: allanj
>
> at the end of last meeting we had a brief discussion about 1.4
>
> and restructuring to make basic customization A with a browser UI and
>
> then AA or AAA stuff be user CSS
>
> gl: when can UA comply with SC with writing user agent CSS
> ... there has to be a user CSS available to claim compliance if user 
> style sheets are necessary to comply
>
> js: ??? isn't that content
>
> gl: not if provided by the UA.
> ... or an extension that provide CSS UI
>
> js: Readability - extension to FF to change font info and line spacing
>
> <Greg> I'm thinking that a user agent can never claim compliance based 
> solely on providing the capability of adding an extension or user 
> style sheet; they can claim compliance only if an extension or user 
> style sheet that demonstrates compliance actually exists and is 
> readily available to users.
>
> <jeanne> actually a bookmarklet
>
> <Greg> A user style sheet that provides global changes (e.g. bolding 
> all links in all documents) could be considered an extension, rather 
> than *merely* content.
>
> js: this is really interesting. and would help with lots of websites
>
> <Greg> Of course, this brings up the long-standing question of to what 
> extent an extension must be discoverable, what hoops the user has to 
> go through to obtain it, whether it costs extra money, etc., to still 
> be considered sufficient to make the user agent compliant.
>
> ja: still concerns about extensions to meet SC. UA changes, ext. 
> doesn't work, author does not update...perhaps if UA's maintained 
> extensions
>
> <Greg> I would not like a user agent to claim compliance relying on a 
> third-party extension or style sheet that's only available on some 
> obscure university web site, while the user agent manufacturer makes 
> no effort to raise awareness of it.
>
> js: come up with a proposal to keep extensions up to date and readily 
> discoverable. Could be an SC or in Compliance
>
> gl: appropriate in Compliance, not sure how to put in SC.
>
> js: if in conformance then in Introduction with own heading, so it 
> stands out.
>
> ja: with a note on SC that say Extension
>
> <scribe> *ACTION:* Greg to write conformance/ introduction extension 
> existence discover-ability and life span [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#action01]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-980 - Write conformance/ introduction 
> extension existence discover-ability and life span [on Greg Lowney - 
> due 2014-05-29].
>
> <jeanne> gl: also include the ease of installation of the extension
>
> <Greg> Similarly, if a user agent only supports one user style sheet 
> at at time, that would not be sufficient for compliance because it 
> would make a style sheet for one SC incompatible with style sheets for 
> other SC, and for other user needs.
>
> <Greg> The same would be true if there was a limitation on how many 
> extensions could be installed, although we have not seen that in practice.
>
> <jeanne> That should go into 1.7
>
> <Greg> Similarly, it would not be sufficient for a user agent to 
> support only a limited set of developer-supplied style sheets.
>
> <scribe> *ACTION:* Jim to create or modify an SC (1.7x) to allow for 
> multiple user stylesheets. [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#action02]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-981 - Create or modify an sc (1.7x) to allow 
> for multiple user stylesheets. [on Jim Allan - due 2014-05-29].
>
> <Greg> We should probably edit 1.7.4 to clarify that the second 
> sentence is a requirement, rather than merely a comment. ("The user 
> can save copies of the stylesheets referenced by the current page. 
> This allows the user to edit and load the copies as user stylesheets.")
>
> ja: we have no SC pertaining only to extensions. Should we?
>
> open item 5
>
> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Use_Cases
>
> from Jan
>
> - everywhere they mention "tablet" it might be better to say "Mobile 
> device" or "Table/Smartphone"
>
> - use case: ability to view captions only on a second device 
> (Table/Smartphone)
>
> - use case: ability to hear secondary audio channel only on second 
> device (Table/Smartphone)
>
> WebTV, on desktop there is an AT layer and the browser. not so on TV
>
> a closed system, no addition of external AT
>
> windows media center. works with nvda, mostly. can read, but not 
> details...spell words
>
> if no 3rd party, how to add scanning keyboard to a closed system if 
> none is built in
>
> looked at timed text, tuner control, font size, captions placement, etc.
>
>
>       Use Case 1 -5
>
> it is assumed that the Tablet has AT installed, that the web interface 
> from the settop box is written to support existing W3C accessibility 
> Standards
>
> <Greg> In Use Case 1, it's assumed that the "service discovery 
> application" is written to conform with accessible design guidelines, 
> and that the tablet on which it's running has assistive technology 
> installed or built-in, and that the combination of the two allows 
> users who have disabilities to use the application to complete the 
> steps in the scenario.
>
> <Greg> If the service discovery application is web-based, then it must 
> comply with WCAG, and the browser must comply with UAAG.
>
> <kford> Reading through all of these much as GL is saying I think the 
> fundamental assumption is that the user gents comply with UAAG and all 
> content with WCAG.
>
> <kford> On my read I don't see places where these use cases or the 
> APIs that would be needed are changing data or adding or removing from 
> it. They seem to be about commmand, control and such of the information.
>
> <kford> But I think the question is for all of this onscreen viewing, 
> where is the accessibility coming from? If not this group who's 
> defining that? Us?
>
> <Greg> If the process of the user "turn(ing) on the Content Service on 
> Tablet" requires user permissions (e.g. entering a password), that 
> process may be implemented by the operating system rather than the 
> browser, in which case it is another component that must been 
> accessible design guidelines. For example, a secure login screen may 
> not be compatible with third-party assistive technology due to...
>
> <Greg> ...security restrictions, and thus must be made self-voicing 
> and have other, similar, accessibility features built-in per 
> requirements for "closed systems".
>
> kf: these are close systems. there must be some accessible interface. 
> built-in or external device to interface with closed-system
> ... content must comply with WCAG
> ... any user agent provided must comply with UAAG
>
> gl: if something has Full Screen Mode, then how is interaction 
> supposed to happen with an on-screen keyboard user.
>
> ja: Use Case 2...An overlay is triggered to invite the subscriber to 
> explore the city of San Francisco further on the Tablet...how is 
> information that appears on the TV screen communication in an 
> accessible manner to the user? does this 'overlay' also appear on the 
> tablet?
>
> can you change the fontsize of stuff on the TV? is the information Spoken
>
> <Greg> An example of accessibility issues would be that if an API 
> allowed something to request full-screen mode, it has to accommodate 
> assistive technology that needs to remain visible. For example, a web 
> app requests to go full screen, then queries the size of the viewport 
> it has been given, rather than assuming that it has actually received 
> a viewport the size of the physical display.
>
> @@ is the tablet the Remote control
>
> <Greg> "Channel Bounded Application: It is a web application that 
> provides contents related to the current broadcasting channel. This 
> application is terminated when the user changes to different channel." 
> (from http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Terminal_Use_Cases) 
> <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Terminal_Use_Cases%29>
>
> <Greg> Re use case 7, "channel bounded applications" are started and 
> closed automatically as you change channels. If you had to do 
> something in your assistive technology to either respond to a new 
> application opening, or configure your AT to interact with that 
> application correctly (per your needs), you may have to do repeat that 
> process every time you switch back to a channel. That could 
> be...sub-optima
>
> <Greg> l, compared with having the channel bound application remain 
> running, and merely hide itself when not needed.
>
> <Greg> Other examples would be if the user needed to reposition or 
> zoom the bounded application's window.
>
> <Greg> Note that switching *applications* should not cause 
> channel-bound applications to be hidden or shown, as the user may need 
> to move focus to an assitive technology utility in order to read, view 
> or control the channel-bound application.
>
> meeting ended early
>
>
>     Summary of Action Items
>
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Greg to write conformance/ introduction extension 
> existence discover-ability and life span [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#action01]
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jim to create or modify an SC (1.7x) to allow for 
> multiple user stylesheets. [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-ua-minutes.html#action02]
>
> [End of minutes]
>
> -- 
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

-- 
___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems, Inc.
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

Blog: Patch on Speech
+Kim Patch
Twitter: RedstartSystems
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
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