- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 14:34:36 -0400
- To: UAWG <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML version of Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
10 Apr 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
Jeanne, kford, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Kelly
Regrets
Jim, Eric
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Jan
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Meeting at TPAC?
2. [5]Finish Jan's OP06 comments
3. [6]EDIT (to match 1.9.1) 2.5.2 Provide Structural
Navigation
4. [7]REMOVE 2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for
Structural Navigation
5. [8]REMOVE: GLOSSARY: important elements
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 April 2014
<kford> we left off at 2.3.3
<kford> comments document:
[10]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
[10] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
<kford> ---
<kford> Main Comment Gateway -
<kford>
[11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/
Meeting at TPAC?
<kford> TPAC is OCT 27-31 in Santa Clara.
<jeanne> We could request Monday - Tuesday
<kford> Group saying we would like to meet 10/27-28. Will
explore funding.
Finish Jan's OP06 comments
<Greg> [12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
[12] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0
046.html
[13]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0046.html
<jeanne> Minutes from 13 March ->
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0
000.html
[14]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0000.html
<Greg> The latest draft wording on 13 March was:
<Greg> Jan's update: 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled
Elements: The user can move keyboard focus directly to any
enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level AA)
EDIT 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The
user can move keyboard focus directly to any enabled elements
in the rendered content. (Level AA)
EDIT 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The
user can perform an activation action on any enabled element in
the rendered content. (Level A)
GL: Element->Elements: 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled
Elements: The user can perform an activation action on any
enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level A)
<Greg> Actually I felt "element" should be singular in the SC
(not title), as a command can't move focus to multiple elements
at one time.
KP: But should move the focus as well
2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can
move keyboard focus directly to any enabled element in the
rendered content. (Level A)
2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
can, in a single action, move keyboard focus to any enabled
element in the rendered content and perform an activation
action on that element. (Level AA)
2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
can, in a single action, move keyboard focus directly to any
enabled element in the rendered content and perform an
activation action on that element. (Level AA)
JR: Do people like wording (leaving aside level)?
KP: Yes
GL: Tiny bit of ambiguity, but good enough
<kford> I lost all my connectivity about 10 minutes ago.
<kford> are you still on the phone?
JR: We should wait for the chair....
<kford> Now when I dial in, thereis no answer
Yes we are all on the phone
<kford> I keep trying and have been for like 10 minutes
Now we've lost Kelly from IRC
Can I call you on Skype?
I'm calling you on Skype...but the call failed
Kelly, do you agree with the following wording:
2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can
move keyboard focus directly to any enabled element in the
rendered content.
2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
can, in a single action, move keyboard focus directly to any
enabled element in the rendered content and perform an
activation action on that element.
KF: OK
... OK with new 2.3.1 and 2.3.3 wording
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update document with new 2.3.1 and
2.3.3 wording above. [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-963 - Update document with new 2.3.1
and 2.3.3 wording above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2014-04-17].
KP: From speech point of view, nav+activation is more important
... It would be more rare to do nav alone
JS: Classic example is screen reader user trying to nav a list
but it activates items as you try to navigate the list
... I like AA for both
JR: I could live with that
KP: I can live with AA for both
GL: I can live with AA...but making me think about lengthy doc
navigation
... Could use structured nav?
GL Maybe page-down
JS: When deciding levels... we said A would be solved an
absolute barrier, was easy to implement, helped many people
KF: OK with Level AA
Resolution: All agree on: 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to
Enabled Elements: The user can move keyboard focus directly to
any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level AA)
... All agree on 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled
Elements: The user can, in a single action, move keyboard focus
directly to any enabled element in the rendered content and
perform an activation action on that element. (Level AA)
<kford> yes I'm fine with this
Resolution: When re-numbering, put 2.3.1 followed immediately
by the 2.3.3
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to renumber in this order: 2.3.1,
2.3.3, 2.3.2 [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-964 - Renumber in this order: 2.3.1,
2.3.3, 2.3.2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-17].
EDIT (to match 1.9.1) 2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation
JR: Only change is more general handle and added "content
sections"
GL: Should we add recognized?
2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
least the following types of structural navigation, where the
recognized structure types are present: (Level AA) - By heading
- By content sections - Within tables
2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
least the following types of structural navigation, where the
following structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By
heading - By content sections - Within tables
2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
least the following types of structural navigation, where the
structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
content sections - Within tables
GL: Looks good
JR: +1
KP: Good
<jeanne> +1
JS: Good
KF: Fine
Resolution: All agree to: 2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation:
The user agent provides at least the following types of
structural navigation, where the structure types are
recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By content sections -
Within tables
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update 2.5.2 with new wording: 2.5.2
Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at least
the following types of structural navigation, where the
structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
content sections - Within tables [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-965 - Update 2.5.2 with new wording:
2.5.2 provide structural navigation: the user agent provides at
least the following types of structural navigation, where the
structure types are recognized: (level aa) - by heading - by
content sections - within tables [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2014-04-17].
REMOVE 2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
Navigation
2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
Navigation: The user can configure a set of important elements
(including element type) for structured navigation and
hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA)
[18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-201404
10/#sc_253
[18]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20140410/#sc_253
KF: I think lots of users would use this
KP: I go to lots of web pages regularly
... People do same things over and over....and ineffecient
2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
Navigation: The user can configure which elements are used for
structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)
1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of
rendered content composed of labels for important elements, and
can move focus efficiently to these elements in the main
viewport. (Level AA)
- Note: The important elements depend on the web content
technology, but may include headings, table captions, and
content sections.
That was current wording...
1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the
rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the
corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) - Note:
The elements reflected in the outline view will depend on the
web content technology and may include: headings, table
captions, and content sections.
<Greg> Note: It is recommended that the user agent allow users
to customize which elements are included in the outline view.
GL: Another approach would be to add a note to 1.9.1 saying it
is recommended that users be able to customize which elements
to include
2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
Navigation: The user can configure which elements are used for
structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)
GL: 1.91. and 2.5.3 etc. should point to this
2.5.3 Configurable Structural Navigation...
<Greg> "Configuring Structural Navigation and Views"?
<Greg> "Configure Structural Navigation and Outline View"?
2.5.3 Configuring Structural Navigation and Views: The user can
configure which elements are used for structural navigation and
outline views. (Level AAA)
JR: KP, JS...handle?
2.5.3 Configure Elements for Structural Navigation and Views:
The user can configure which elements are used for structural
navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)
2.5.3 Configure Navigation and Views: The user can configure
which elements are used for structural navigation and outline
views. (Level AAA)
<Greg> My pref would be the shorter "2.5.3 Configure Structural
Navigation and Views", but can live with it long.
2.5.3 Configure Structural Navigation and Views: The user can
configure which elements are used for structural navigation and
outline views. (Level AAA)
JR: +1
KP: +1
<jeanne> +1 to Greg's
GL: +1
<Greg> GL +1
KF: +1
Resolution: All agree with: 2.5.3 Configure Structural
Navigation and Views: The user can configure which elements are
used for structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to reword 2.5.3 Configure Structural
Navigation and Views: [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-966 - Reword 2.5.3 configure
structural navigation and views: [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2014-04-17].
REMOVE: GLOSSARY: important elements
JR: Agree to remove
KP: +1
GL: We will need to remove from summary of 1.9, 2.3
Resolution: All agree to remove "GLOSSARY: important elements"
and mention of import elements from summaries (1.9 and 2.3)
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to remove definition of "important
elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-967 - Remove definition of "important
elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
[on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-17].
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0
004.html
[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0004.html
<scribe> Scribe: Jan
[22]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
[22] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html
JS: All of that "Important elements" stuff was related to
comment MSO9
GL: Actually we ere on OP06
... An opera comment
... That was the last Opera comment
JR: So what's next?
JS: Maybe James Craig....AP01
... The working group agrees that many items in UAAG 2.0 are
relatively easy to acheive with CSS and scripts bu the onus
should be on user agents developers rather than users in the
general public to implement these.
<jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
on user agent developers rather than users.
<Greg> I'm thinking that to claim compliance, the claimant
needs to demonstrate compliance, which may be done with
existing user style sheets and scripts. However, it is
insufficient to claim that those could *in theory* be written,
if none can be demonstrated.
<jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
on user agent developers rather than users. To claim
compliance, there must be a solution for the non-expert, not a
sample of what could be done.
<Greg> In order to claim compliance, the claimant must
demonstrate that solutions, and any required additional
components, are available to non-expert users. Enabling the
creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient.
<jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
on user agent developers rather than users. To claim
compliance, there must be a practical solution for the
non-expert user, not just a sample of what could be done.
<jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
on user agent developers rather than users. In order to claim
compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and
any required additional components, are available to non-expert
users. Enabling the creation of such solutions is not by itself
sufficient.
Resolution: UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
on user agent developers rather than users. In order to claim
compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and
any required additional components, are available to non-expert
users. Enabling...
... the creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient.
<jeanne> Next Week: Start with AP02
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to remove definition of "important
elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
[recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to renumber in this order: 2.3.1, 2.3.3,
2.3.2 [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to reword 2.5.3 Configure Structural
Navigation and Views: [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 2.5.2 with new wording: 2.5.2
Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at least
the following types of structural navigation, where the
structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
content sections - Within tables [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update document with new 2.3.1 and
2.3.3 wording above. [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 10 April 2014 18:34:38 UTC