- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:33:53 -0500
- To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes
http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-minutes.html
Text of Minutes:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19 Jan 2012
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Kim, Mark, Greg, Wayne
Regrets
Chair
KellyFord and JimAllan
Scribe
Kim
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]call on Friday
2. [5]Discuss Survey Results -
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/
3. [6]2.11.7
4. [7]2.11.3
5. [8]2.11.4
6. [9]2.11.2
7. [10]2.1.0
8. [11]summary 2.11 background images
9. [12]2.11.7 timebased media examples
10. [13]2.11.8 semantic navigation examples
11. [14]2.11.9 track enable/disable
12. [15]2.11.11 scale and position visual alternative media
tracks
13. [16]2.11.12 video contrast and brightness
14. [17]3.3.3 changes between versions
15. [18]3.3.4 centralized view
16. [19]5.1.1 follow sensibility guidelines
17. [20]5.3.2 implement accessibility features intent
18. [21]5.3.1 implement accessibility features of contents
specs
19. [22]SC to Check from F2F -
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0
018.html
20. [23]1.2.1 repair missing alternatives
21. [24]1.3.1 highlighted items
22. [25]1.8.4
23. [26]2.1.1 keyboard operation
* [27]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<kford> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working
Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<kford> Scribe: Kim
length of meeting discussion
call on Friday
slated to meet tomorrow East Coast 1-4
<kford> Just a reminder that we meet Friday 1P to 4P.
Discuss Survey Results -
[28]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/
[28] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/
Kelly: 2.3
... when we don't have universal agreement we can either send this
off for someone, which will take a whole cycle, or we can spend
group time rewriting
Jim: I can live with Jean's
Jean: use Greg's as final sentence
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring
memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*.
Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface
users. The *some users* of the
<jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be
able to operate navigation effectively, *while those using assistive
technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic
means.* Tthese do not have to always be presented, but can instead
be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
Greg: I don't think the word programmatically belongs in the SC, but
if we keep it it does make sense to mention it in the intent
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring
memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*.
Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface
users. The *some users* of the
<jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be
able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive
technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic
means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be
a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
application, platform, user agent and assistive technology,
*requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut
commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard
interface users. The *some
<jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels
to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some
using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes
by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented,
but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in
Windows).
Wayne: I don't understand the section while some... programmatic
means.
<Greg> "In some cases assistive technology needs to be able to
discover the keyboard shortcuts, either to convey them to the user
or to simulate them itself."
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
application, platform, user agent and assistive technology,
*requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut
commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard
interface users. The *some
<jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels
to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some
using assistive technologies are able to discover keystrokes by
programmatic means. These do not have to always be presented, but
can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in
Windows).
<Greg> "In some cases assistive technologyneeds to be able to
discover the keyboard shortcuts *programmatically*, either to convey
them to the user or to simulate them itself."
Wayne: as intent, OK
... why do we need the programmatically,
Greg: everything is going to have to be exposed programmatically --
a label would be exposed as text programmatically, but to simulate a
keystroke it has two understand the relationship -- that that is a
direct key for a certain control. That's covered by another sc., not
sure if it has to be in this sc.
<Greg> Note that the portion of the SC about programmatic access is
redundant to 4.1.6 Expose Accessible Properties, (j) direct keyboard
commands.
Greg: if we leave the thing about programmatic access here, we
should put a cross-reference to that
<Greg> If we keep the programmatic access here, we should cross
reference to 4.1.6.j.
Wayne: I think this is good enough
Kelly: any objections
no objections
<Greg> Either way, the cross reference should be include whether we
keep or remove the programmatic aspect of the SC.
2.11.7
2.11.3
all agreed
2.11.4
2.11.2
unanimous
<jeanne> Resolved: Accept 2.7.2, 2.7.3, and 2.7.4 as proposed in the
survey.
2.1.0
summary
Mark: needs to be expanded
<AndroUser> Ok with Marks
Correction: Topic 2.10
<Greg> "In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent
seizures by not flashing..."
Wayne: to avoid seizures, the user may configure the way so that the
flashing is below 2% or does not flash at all
Jean: the default rather than the user can configure
Greg: in the default configuration...
Mark: what's flashing, the entire screen for some element within the
UI
<mhakkinen> The user can avoid potential seizures with a default
browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and
rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above
a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all
(2.10.2).
Greg: if it's not the default it would be more the user can avoid --
emphasize the default configuration over the user can
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser
configuration prevents..."
<jeanne> In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent
seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the
browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than
three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold
(2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser
configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered
content from flashing more than three times a second above a
luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all
(2.10.2)."
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default configuration
prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from
flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or
color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)."
<AndroUser> Good for me
+1
summary 2.11 background images
Greg: I can live with it
Kelly: trivial to change -- I like Greg's change
<Greg> The user can control background images (2.11.1); present
placeholders for time-based media (2.11.2) and executable regions
(2.11.3), or block all executable content (2.11.4); adjust playback
(2.11.5), stop/pause/resume (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify
tracks for prerecorded time-based media (2.11.9); scale and position
alternative media tracks (2.11.11); and adjust contrast and...
<Greg> ...brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12).
2.11.7 timebased media examples
all agree
2.11.8 semantic navigation examples
<jeanne> RESOLVED: Proposals for Summaries of 2.10 & 2.11 accepted
as amended
Greg: screen time makes it look like how much time you can look at
the screen, minor changes
<Greg> "Wes has repetitive stress injury that limits the length of
his computer sessions. He stops playback of a training video when he
is tired and after resting, he can restart it and navigate to the
scene where he left off."
agreed to change
2.11.9 track enable/disable
Kelly: Mark suggests using the same names
Greg: using the same name and rewrite for style
<Greg> Changing the SC to include ""During time-based media
playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and
select or deselect tracks, overriding global default settings for
captions, audio descriptions, etc."
+1
<AndroUser> Ok
<Greg> Style only, but the second example could be shortened to
start "Gorges is deaf, and subscribes to a web service that streams
major popular movies." Replaces the first two sentences.
2.11.11 scale and position visual alternative media tracks
all agreed
2.11.12 video contrast and brightness
<AndroUser> Ok as is
agreed
3.3.3 changes between versions
<AndroUser> When she installs it...
<Greg> Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that
an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she
installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features
in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new
For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the
accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added
a...
<Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for
elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs
Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to
accessibility settings to turn it on.
<Greg> > Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices
that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she
installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features
in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new
For Accessibility". Following this link Martha reads about the
accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added
a...
<Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for
elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs
Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to
accessibility settings to turn it on.
3.3.4 centralized view
<Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's
never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that
is part of his phone's operating system. he browser's online help
includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages
discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen
readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the
screen layout and...
<Greg> ...a list of supported touch gestures.
<Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's
never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that
is part of his phone's operating system. *The* browser's online help
includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages
discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen
readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the
screen layout...
<Greg> ...and a list of supported touch gestures.
Kelly: that's fine
+1
5.1.1 follow sensibility guidelines
all agreed
5.3.2 implement accessibility features intent
<Greg> Most operating systems have conventions and expectations that
aid accessibility, such as keyboard behavior, support of an
accessibility API, user interface design, and other standards
related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to
ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility
requirements of the platform in use.
<AndroUser> Or sensible guidelines
Greg: possible overlap. 531 is about content, 532 contains the word
content as well, so 531 used a subset that the moment. If we want to
keep the content and the platform separate we delete the words
content and from 532 and keep 531.
<Greg> If we delete "content and" from 5.3.2 then we would delete
the two intent paragraphs from 5.3.1.
<Greg> And we'll delete references to HTML and ARIA from 5.3.2.
<jeanne> 5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of platform:
<jeanne> Implement and cite in the conformance claim the
accessibility features of platform technology specifications.
Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A) :
<jeanne> The user should be able to easily discover detailed
information about the user agent's adherence to accessibility
standards, platform standards such as MSAA or JAA, and third-party
standards such as ISO 9241-171, and should be able to do so without
installing and testing the accessibility features.
5.3.1 implement accessibility features of contents specs
<Greg> (We also did the edit to the first paragraph of 5.3.2's
Intent.)
<Greg> Most content specs include features important to users with
disabilities, and users may find it difficult or impossible to use a
product that fails to support those features. Users should be able
to easily discover detailed information about the user agent’s
adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to
content such as HTML and WAI-ARIA, and should be able to do so
without...
<Greg> ...installing and testing the accessibility features. This
will allow them to make informed decisions about whether or not to
they will be able to use, and therefore should install, a new
product or version of that product.
<Greg> Jordy uses a web site which uses WAI-ARIA to identify the
functions of custom controls. If he used a web browser that didn't
support this aspect of WAI-ARIA and expose that information to
assistive technology, the web site would be unusable with his web
browser. Therefore Jordy needs to choose a web browser that he knows
fully supports WAI-ARIA, and he determines this by reading
product...
<Greg> ...documentation and UAAG conformance claims posted on the
Web
<AndroUser> Im back
Jeanne: most content specs -- you mean specifications?
<kford> zakim q?
SC to Check from F2F -
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html
[29]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html
Kelly: items from face-to-face that we had voted no on
... list from Jim -- we had voted no on at some point, that still
need some attention -- do we still think they are wrong or what do
we want to do with them
Topic 1.11
<jeanne> Rendering alternative content defaults
Kelly: we said the handle was wrong
<jeanne> Configurable alternative content defaults
<mhakkinen> +1
1.1.2 Browse and Render
Kelly: we wanted to address the ability to have the alternative
content display along with the default is the comment
Jeanne: that's getting complex
Kelly: if we tried to address this comment it would have to be a new
success criteria
Jeanne: add to the intent -- this is not preclude having it display
in multiple...
<Greg> How about add Note: User agents are encouraged to also
provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than
replacing, the primary content.
+1
<Greg> (e.g. as a pop-up or tooltip)
<AllanJ> +1
<Greg> Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability
to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the
primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation).
<mhakkinen> +1
Greg: Brother places where it would be just as important to display
both alternative and primary as important as just one of the two. If
we think that is as important are two options are either to put in a
second SC about applying them with or to change the wording of this
SC to say the user has a choice
Jim: nobody can do this yet, nobody can render them as both so we
should leave it as an either or
Greg: you can do it using a style sheet
Kelly: just a note
Greg: if it is as important it should be in the SC
Wayne: what is the purpose
Jeanne: what is the advantage of displaying both
Greg: having the image and description of the image because if you
have some vision -- today you have to hide the image to see the
description
Kelly: example of why you want both -- what happens if there's an
alternate title on object
... there could be times when you want to render both
... W3C/wai homepage, the alt text
Jim: you have to go through machinations -- it would be good if were
just upon the screen so you could see all the titles
Kelly: I would be good with putting a note for expediency
Jeanne: right now it's in the main document as a note after 1.1.2
<AllanJ> ok with note
agreed to note
<mhakkinen> have to go. see you tomorrow.
discussion on how to proceed given that are fewer of us
1.2.1 repair missing alternatives
Kelly: comment this sounds like what people curse about Microsoft
word. It's an option
Jim, Kelly seems okay to me
<jeanne> W3C doesn't have a quorum policy. We represent the views of
the group. I think we should not address issues that we know are
contentious to a particular member, but otherwise, we can go ahead.
Greg: we are not saying which repair text -- what is expected -- if
there are no captions for video with this require use
voice-recognition to create captions -- why would it not?
<Greg> I'm concerned that the text of SC 1.2.1 requires user agents
to create repair text for *all* missing alternative content.
Wouldn't that include using speech recognition to generate captions
for audio? It's Level A.
Jim: what is repair text?
<jeanne> SC: - 1.2.1 Repair Missing Alternatives:
<jeanne> The user can specify whether or not the user agent should
generate and render repair text (e.g. file name) when it recognizes
that the author has not provided alternative content. (Level A)
<jeanne> Example - Bintu is deaf and relies on captions to replace
audio. A video does not have captions. Bintu selects a caption
button, and is informed that no captions exist. The player then
analyzes the video soundtrack and provides speech to text
translation served as captions. Note: this is an advanced example,
not a requirement.
<AllanJ> repair content, repair text
<AllanJ> Content generated by the user agent to correct an error
condition. "Repair text" refers to the text portion of repair
content. Error conditions that may lead to the generation of repair
content include:
<AllanJ> Erroneous or incomplete content (e.g. ill-formed markup,
invalid markup, or missing alternative content that is required by
format specification);
<AllanJ> Missing resources for handling or rendering content (e.g.
the user agent lacks a font family to display some characters, or
the user agent does not implement a particular scripting language).
Jeanne: the added that note as an advanced example not a requirement
specifically for that
<AllanJ> UAAG 2.0 does not require user agents to include repair
content in the document object. Repair content inserted in the
document object should conform to the Web Content Accessibility
Guidelines 1.0 [WCAG10]. For more information about repair
techniques for Web content and software, refer to "Techniques for
Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 1.0" [ATAG10-TECHS].
Greg: fine as an example but the SC doesn't exclude things like that
... so it says that the don't have to be document object, but it
still seems to say that it has to generate captions for audio unless
we do something to scope that otherwise or clarify in the definition
of repair text
Jim: definition of repair text --
Greg: we should probably clarify that in the intent document to
point out that because the definition for repair text is only for
things required by the specification it would not require for
example generating transcripts of audio using speech recognition
Jeanne: the definition of repair text is only for things required...
I will add that to the intent
Greg: do we also want to make a note about feasibility -- like are
there cases whereit's simply not feasible for the user agent to
generate a meaningful repair text
Jim: because this repair text was originally set up for what screen
readers do if there's no, tries to do a title of there's no title it
snags the filename as a last resort so the user has something.
Greg: do we have a list of alternative content -- which ones are
required by the specification and therefore which would be required
Jeanne: atag
<jeanne>
[30]http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#p
rompting-types
[30]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types
Greg: do they know which one of those are required in terms of
repair text?
Jeanne: no, this is what requires -- not used as repair text, this
is what authoring tools are responsible for
<jeanne>
[31]http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#p
rompting-types
[31]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types
Greg: I like to see these things be in the document so we don't lose
track of them
<AllanJ> Note: there are some instances when user agents will not be
able to generate repair text. Such as when a video does not have
captions. we do not expect the UA to use voice recognition to
generate captions.
Jeanne: we can put it at the end of the SC
<AllanJ> Greg as serious issues ith this. what is requiared
alternative text and what is to be used to replace it.
Jeanne: one of ways to resolve it is to eliminate the entire success
criteria.this is a very HTML oriented success criteria
... do we really needed, given the ambiguity and how could be
misapplied to new technology
Greg: I'm unsure whether it's needed
... you could in your list of questions put that -- that we are
considering deleting it and see if people protest
Jeanne: or put it on the agenda for tomorrow
<AllanJ> I could live with deleting it
Kelly: I don't think anybody does this today
Jim: I would be okay with deleting it
... I think it's just one of those leftover screen reader things
Kelly: will bring up tomorrow
1.3.1 highlighted items
Greg: to do the recommendation you have to require something -- you
could say at least these -- in the intent, but it's pretty implied
anyway it's not an exclusive list, it is a minimum list
Jim: I think this is okay
Greg: for now, will note that we will keep it, ignore the comment
<Greg> Maybe clearer to change "presence of alternative content" to
"elements with alternative content".
Greg: change to elements with alternative content
Topic 1.3.3: highlighted input controls
<jeanne>
[32]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120
119.html#sc-131
[32]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120119.html#sc-131
Jim: auditory you get a bing when you move over something?
<Greg> Would these be easier to read if we moved the parenthetical
examples to the end of each, rather their middles?
<Greg> E.g. change "enabled controls that take input (e.g. push
buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not
groupings or static text and images) regardless of whether they are
read-write or read-only" to "enabled controls that take input,
regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only (e.g. push
buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but
not...
<Greg> ...groupings or static text and images)"?
OK as is
1.8.4
Kelly: as an action with it so we should skip it
<kford> Kelly look up action items from Jim's list.
2.1.1 keyboard operation
<Greg> [33]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
[33] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
Kelly: did we resolve this -- something in the beginning of the
document that defines -- and action item from last week
... we did resolve it -- keyboard interface. We need to replace in
some portions of document
Jeanne: we have to do a level review -- the number of a's that
aren't done now -- go through and skim the level a's to see which
browsers actually do.
Greg: it would make a lot of sense to have a reference of which ones
are implemented and which ones are not.
... even if we can find that a couple of obscure browsers support
it, it's going to look like a new feature request, and if we have
too many feature requests...
Jeanne: if we could expand on that wiki page -- listed all a's and
said who met each one -- the majors.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Received on Friday, 20 January 2012 14:33:57 UTC