minutes: UAWG telecon 28 June 2012

from http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html
- DRAFT - User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 28
Jun 2012

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-irc>
Attendees
Presentgreg, jan, jeanne, jim, kim, mark, simonRegretskfordChairjimallan,
kellyfordScribeHarper_Simon, KimPatch
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Mobile Symposium Report -
www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. 2.11.7 definitions of "timebase", "continuous scale, "relative
      time units" (Action-699,
Action-644)<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. 2.11.11 scale and position of caption track
(Action-692)<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html#item03>
   - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012

<kford> microsoftzakim, microsoft is kford

<JAllan> Jan's presentation: Assessment Of Keyboard Interface Accessibility
In Mobile Browsers - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/paper4/

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
Mobile Symposium Report - www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/

Mobile symposium report, Jan did a presentation

jeanne was also present

JS very impressed, liked the format - peaople had a chance to read papers,
then a discussion, lots of questions, filled in with questions from Yeliz

JS: disappointed in themes not aware of standards other than WCAG -
applicability to mobile Jan was the super star.

JR: Liked format, no preaching, panel discussions
... took mobile browsers, scored on keyboard accessibility - UAAG has
something to say on this
... scored on IpHone Android etc against a few sites - everyone needs to do
their job, platform, browser, website
... FF scored low but now getting into accessibility on their mobile
browsers
... Hopeful about mobile accessibility, first time , multiple large tech
companies competing on features
... All can be made accessible (ATs etc - own accessible UI where ever they
are)

JS: Brian Cragun from IBM very good qs

JR: mobile security containerise the phone so problems for accessibility
when the phone is taken into some companies

JS: IBM policy to turn off siri
... everything is going to the apple servers fro processing - so security
implications

SH: see Richard Stallman talk

AT&T has a similar back end speech engine via nuance

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2094833/DS500012.ogg

Transcribed Stallman talk version available next Tuesday at
http://simon.harper.name

JA: thanks Jan for banging our UI drum and raising profile

http://symbolset.com/
2.11.7 definitions of "timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units"
(Action-699, Action-644)

MH: Sent to list but have not yet appeared - ?

<mhakkinen> timebase Defines a common time scale for a time-based media
presentation.

JA: the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train about to flatten us,
everyone is working hard to clear stuff up.

GL: by common you mean either - used to seeing - or consistant

MH: providing a common base across all constituents of a presentation
... example give to elucidate the point for GL

JR: elucidation sounds good need extra

GL: including the example with the defn would also be useful

<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale across all constituents
of a time-based media presentation

<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale across all components of
a time-based media presentation

<JAllan> timebase - defines a common time scale across all components of a
time-based media presentation

<mhakkinen> For example, a mediaplayer will expose a single timebase for a
presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks.

<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale for all components of a
time-based media presentation

Timebase - providing a common time scale for all components of a time-based
media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single
timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks,
allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate

<JAllan> +1

Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of a time-based
media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single
timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks,
allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate.

Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of a time-based
media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single
timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks,
for instance allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback
rate and position.

*RESOLUTION: Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of
a time-based media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a
single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio
tracks, for instance allowing users or technology to query or alter the
playback rate and position.*

<mhakkinen> Continuous scale When interacting with a time-based media
presentation, a continuous scale allows user (or programmatic) action to
set the active playback position to any time point on the presentation
timeline. The granularity of the positioning is determined by the smallest
resolvable time unit in the media timebase.

<JAllan> +1

+1

GL: clearer if 'as opposed to' included...

<JAllan> definitions for 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media:

<JAllan> The user can navigate along the timebase using a continuous scale,
and by relative time units within rendered audio and animations (including
video and animated images) that last three or more seconds at their default
playback rate.

*RESOLUTION: Continuous scale When interacting with a time-based media
presentation, a continuous scale allows user (or programmatic) action to
set the active playback position to any time point on the presentation
timeline. The granularity of the positioning is determined by the smallest
resolvable time unit in the media timebase.*

<mhakkinen> Relative time units

<mhakkinen> When interacting with a time-based media presentation, a user
may find it easier to move forward or backward via time intervals, such as
skipping ahead by 10 seconds in a video lecture. Relative time units define
time intervals for media navigation which may be preset, user configurable,
and/or automatically calculated based upon media duration.

discussion of how relative time units are used

JR: if % increases which are relative, but not 3 second units

SH relative to current position

GL: isn't this about larger chunks - units larger than the minimum unit

JS: wouldn't be better for units to be predictable to user

JA: seen this both ways - or continious
... sounds like we are asking for a different word (and sc) - time units

<Jan> time increments?

JR: time increaments

<Jan> JA: Time intervals

JA: time increments (already in Defn)

JS: what is the point of having it relatively adjustable?

Cases as to why this is required presented

<KimPatch> Jeanne: I want to push back on setting it as a requirement for
that number

<KimPatch> Greg: using a scrollbar for that can be quite cumbersome and yet
it's a fairly common need therefore recommending that there be a shortcut
for that operation seems completely reasonable

<KimPatch> Jan: yes continuous scale, it's also important to be able to
move increments along that scale and leave it open for user agent to
determine what those increments are

<KimPatch> Greg: what you just described could be met by providing a
scrollbar that only moves into second increments, but my thinking of the
goal is a shortcut for moving in positive or negative direction by a small
amount

<KimPatch> Jan: they can be linked to a shortcut. If you click outside the
generally jumps in increments.

<KimPatch> Jim: the relative time units wasn't quite getting at -- we're
looking at calling it time increments

<KimPatch> Mark: what about positioning or navigational time increments for
audio

<jeanne> Jeanne: Media Accessibility User Requirements does not address it.
The only reference I can find is: [CNS-2] Users must be able to discover,
skip, play-in-line, or directly access ancillary content structures.
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-media-accessibility-reqs-20120103/#granularity-level-control-for-structural-navigation

<KimPatch> Jan: navigation time increments?

<JAllan> mark will review the definition and 2.11.7 action-699 for next week
2.11.11 scale and position of caption track (Action-692)

<mhakkinen> 2.11.11 Scale and position visual alternative media tracks: The
user can scale and position alternative media tracks independent of the
base video or audio player presentation. (Level AAA)

<KimPatch> Mark: slight tweak to text -- we had only stated video before

<JAllan> scribe: KimPatch

Greg: eventually they'll be something beyond video and audio, but not much
today

Jeanne: I think it's clearer with video and audio

Jan: scale and position

Jim: where you can move the captions into a different place and make them
bigger or smaller

Mark: I will add the word visual

<mhakkinen> 2.11.11 Scale and position visual alternative media tracks: The
user can scale and position alternative visual media tracks independent of
the base video or audio player presentation. (Level AAA)

Greg: visual alternative media to keep the phrase

Jan: independent is what's really important-- able to make the captions
larger without making the base video larger. But what does it mean
independent of audio presentation

Mark: captions available as a button on the audio player. I click that and
the small captions window appears. I now want that to be larger than the
audio player default and I want to move it elsewhere and scale it

Jan: audio controls -- you don't want to scale the whole thing you just
want to scale this one part of it. We have some other stuff on scaling --
viewports and this is essentially a viewport.

Mark: I toyed with using the term viewport and backed off of it,
... you won't be thinking of these things as the viewports that we know and
love

Greg: sometimes we will, but that's rare compared to the number of times
it's overlaid

Jan: not within the same confines of the viewport -- anywhere on the page,
screen, any size -- that's a high bar. The low bar is you can scale it, you
can choose between 12 points and 14 point font, choose between the bottom
and two pixels above the bottom...

Greg: letter but not the spirit -- that's true of a lot of these

Jan: maybe just the word independent, strong here

Greg: I like the word independent -- it's clear that has to be moved
outside the video. Most things don't comply with that

Jim: bringing up testability was a good idea. Is this way too far-fetched?
... we are saying the browser needs to do this if we are doing native HTML
5 stuff -- that we can detach the captions from the video and put them
someplace else on the screen -- make them an active object you can drag
around and resize. Do we have any real live implementations of this

Mark: I don't know of anybody who's doing it presently

Jim: UAAG next?

<mhakkinen> Users who require or can benefit from alternative media tracks
in video or audio may not find the default or authored position and size of
those tracks to be usable. Enabling the user to move and scale any
displayed alternate media tracks (e.g. captions) allows for the displayed
content to be positioned and sized to meet the needs of the user.

Jan: I don't want to go that far. Increase the size of captions rather than
this way open thing.
... intent really good.

Mark: examples

<mhakkinen> Justin has low vision and works in a noisy environment that
makes it difficult to listen to instructional videos. When he enlarges the
text of the captions to a viewable size, they block most of the video
image. Justin selects an option that displays the caption track in a
separate window, which he positions below the video image so the captions
do not block the video image.

<mhakkinen> Jaime is deaf and is taking courses from on online university.
She prefers to utilize ASL if it is available for online media, and a
current course she is taking offers both captions and a signing avatar for
the recorded lectures. The default size of the avatar window is small,
making it difficult to follow the signing. The avatar also overlays a
significant part of the lecture video. Jaime drags the avatar out of the
video and enlarges it, so that both ar

<mhakkinen> so that both are equally sized and side by side.

Mark: fix the SC

Jim: we have everything else
... at the presentation huge panel at CSUN three years ago, WGBH, Adobe,
movie studios. they were showing video and caption side by side, and also
the last 30 seconds of captions -- last 15 lines of dialogue and it was on
a continuous scroll and other sorts of things so that sometimes the caption
goes by so fast -- they were allowing instead of the normal two lines 15 or
20 lines. Those...
... were some of the things I saw in addition to positioning website bottom
moving around and scaling to text -- what was on the bleeding edge at that
time
... acceptance of the intent and example -- no objections

Resolved: accepted examples and intent and will revisit SC wording next week

<JAllan> zakim: close item 3

Mark: 5.1.5

<mhakkinen> 5.1.5 Alternative content handlers: The user can select content
elements and have them rendered in alternative viewers. (Level AA)

<mhakkinen> Intent of Success Criterion 5.1.5: When accessing media or
specialized content (e.g. MathML) on the Web, users with disabilities
sometimes find they have a richer or more accessible experience using a
third-party application, plug-in, or extension, than using the browser's
built-in facilities. In these cases they want to be able to navigate to
content in their browser and then enable or activate a browser plug-in or
extension to interact with the content

<JAllan> zaim: open item 4

<mhakkinen> Alternately, they may elect to save that content to their disk
and launch it in a third- party application.

<JAllan> zakim: open item 4

Mark: removable media

Jan: save the content

Greg: cloud...
... it's not entirely clear from this whether the ability to save content
is required or not. It does not seem to be required

Mark: it depends on the content and the plug-in for what you're going to
potentially view it in -- we don't know what that's going to be
... but I understand your point

Jim: I don't think we want to make it a requirement I think the important
thing is that they can interact with it with a third-party viewer

Mark: I change the intent to little bit

<mhakkinen> Jukka is visually impaired and a scientist whose work involves
mathematical models for speech recognition. Many of the journals he reads
online are beginning to include MathML to display equations. Jukka finds
the native support for MathML accessibility in his Web browser to be
generally compatible with his screen reader, but it can become unreliable
for extremely complex equations. In those cases, Jukka selects an alternate
rendering plugin via a conte

<mhakkinen> to his screen reader.

<mhakkinen> Jukka finds the native support for MathML accessibility in his
Web browser to be generally compatible with his screen reader, but it can
become unreliable for extremely complex equations.

<mhakkinen> In those cases, Jukka selects an alternate rendering plugin via
a context menu to make the MathML understandable to his screen reader.

<JAllan> 5.1.5 Alternative content handlers: The user can select content
elements and have them rendered in alternative viewers. (Level AA)

Mark: I change something in intent and added preference to mathML

<JAllan> +1

<JAllan> zakim: close this item

Jim: next time Jeanne proposal

<JAllan> close action-653

<trackbot> ACTION-653 Rework 543...tighten up, use mathml use case closed
 Summary of Action Items [End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964