minutes: UAWG 10 November 2011

from: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 10 Nov 2011

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-irc>
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-irc
Attendees
 Present             Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Simon, Kim, Greg, Mark Regrets JanR,
MarkH Chair JimAllan, KellyFord Scribe jallan, kford
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. TPAC Recap <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Review outstanding work from TPAC review, SC needing attention and
      such with goal to assign owners for SC needing
work.<http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Review any proposals sent to
list<http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#item03>
    - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

 <trackbot> Date: 10 November 2011

<JAllan> scribe: jallan

http://test.tsbvi.edu/generated.htm
TPAC Recap

kf: appreciate those in person, and Simon for calling in.
... lots of work. good sense of where we are, where going.
... publishing moratorium winter holidays

gl: not changes much. changed wording from style sheet to style profiles

kf: is something missing?

gl: current ones are same as wayne's. as they are they are pretty good

ja: thought we discussed these at the f2f

js: reason we are not using 'stylesheets'

kf: technology specific. trying to make agnostic.

<Greg> I lean towards the phrase "style sheets and equivalent".

gl: like using terms reader understands

ja: +1 to gl

kp: neutral on wording

kf: editorially, do we need to use 'or equivalent'

kp: style profile is awkward, but must use style sheets and equivalent"
every time for folks will get confused
... if only stylesheets people will narrowly define in their head

js: if not using 'stylesheets' suggest 'presentation profiles' to abstract
further

kp: leaning more toward 'style profiles', wording is better in context.
helps people think wider

kf: are there other styles

kp: nice to define a vocabulary. will need define 'style profile'

<Greg> It looks like Wayne's changes amount to (a) adding 1.7.0, (b)
replacing term "style sheet" with "style profile", and (c) in 1.7.1
changing "turn off" to "turn on or off" and "every author style sheet
defined" to "every author profile".

kf: put in document as is, in status changes for new Working Draft - ask
for feedback. There may be other ways to do this let us know. Include
definition of 'style profile'

kp: Dragon switched to using profile, and it made more sense to users

kf: have intents for all of these except the new 1.7.0, Jeanne can you put
in document

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add Wayne Dick's proposal for 1.7 to the
document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-657 - Add Wayne Dick's proposal for 1.7 to the
document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-11-17].

<scribe> *ACTION:* jallan to add column about IER presence on the
uaag-total table [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-658 - Add column about IER presence on the
uaag-total table [on Jim Allan - due 2011-11-17].

gl: should we add glossary terms proposed by wayne to glossary.
... seems convoluted to add 4 additional paragraphs to support a 1 line
def. of 'style profile'
... should be able to come up with a shorter definition that does not
require the other support info.

<Greg> I think we can define "style sheet" or "style profile" such that we
don't need to introduce and define two new terms ("style rule" and "style
grouping"), which I think just confuse the reader and the document.

<kford> *ACTION:* kford to send mail to Wayne asking him to revise and
simplify glossary definitions. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-659 - Send mail to Wayne asking him to revise and
simplify glossary definitions. [on Kelly Ford - due 2011-11-17].
Review outstanding work from TPAC review, SC needing attention and such
with goal to assign owners for SC needing work.

test.tsbvi.edu/uaag-total.htm

<mhakkinen> * irc only

kf: how to address the 'no' items
... everybody look through action items and close those that should be
closed.
... team will assign 'no' items to appropriate folks

ja: there are 22 items with no associated action items
Review any proposals sent to list

close action-591

<trackbot> ACTION-591 Create table with comments and group responses. closed

<kford> Scribe: kford

JA: Talking about action 650 and looking at CSS generated contnet not
appearing in the DOM.
... I couldn't find this in the DOM.
... Correction I couldn't find this in the HTML5 spec.
... I don't know if we need this as a SC to ensure it doens't go away.

'GLP: Do we need a generic SC that generated content is one example.

GL: Do we want something that says everything presented to the user must be
available programatically.
... Do we then want something that talks about ensuring this is done in an
easy fashion e.g. DOM and accessibility API?

<JAllan> *ACTION:* jallan review css spec for generated text in the dom,
and propose adding information to the a11y api [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-660 - Review css spec for generated text in the
dom, and propose adding information to the a11y api [on Jim Allan - due
2011-11-17].

<JAllan> close action action-650

<JAllan> close action-650

<JAllan> close action-650

<trackbot> ACTION-650 Review generated css content in html5 closed

<JAllan> Action-630

<JAllan> 1.8x Maintain Point of Regard::

JA: My other action was 630 around point of regard.

<JAllan> When user changes viewport size or scales the content, maintain
the current point of regard.

<JAllan> Intent: Keep as much of the current content in the viewport when
the viewport changes size or the user scales content/ It can be
disorienting and confusing when a user changes the viewports size and the
current content shifts out of the viewport and different content on the
same page is displayed. Point the top-left corner (or top-right corner for
RTL languages) to the viewport regardless of...

<JAllan> ...viewport size or scale. If an element has focus in the viewport
keep the focused element in the viewport after resizing or scaling.

GL: I think this is not using the point of regard correctly.

JA: The intent reflects what I think needs to happen.

<Greg> I think this is misusing the term "point of regard". Per the
definition, "point of regard" is the thing the user is presumed to be
looking at, so it's not really up to the user agent to "maintain it", but
rather to keep it within the visible portion of the viewport.

JA: Some people might get confused and say it is the center that is the
point of regard.
... I think the most consistent is the top left corner.

<scribe> *ACTION:* kford to send proposed assignments for SC needing
attention to list based on Jim's spreadsheet. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-661 - Send proposed assignments for SC needing
attention to list based on Jim's spreadsheet. [on Kelly Ford - due
2011-11-17].

GL and JA talking further about exactly what is meant here.

<JAllan> kelly and jim discussing orientation examples

<JAllan> kf: 2 examples, 1-keeping top left corner pinned, 2 - keep the
focused element in the same relative position in the revised viewport

<JAllan> keep the focused element in the same relative position in the
revised content in the viewport

<Greg> Perhaps "The point of regard remains at the same relative location
within the visible portion of the viewport when the viewport is resized or
the view within the viewport is scaled." (Too many uses of "viewport",
though.)

<JAllan> gl: why in the intent and not the SC

<JAllan> ja: didn't want make the SC too prescriptive

<JAllan> kp: would like to strongly suggest UA does one of the two
solutions. they are good cognitively.

<JAllan> ... would be better for all UA to do the same way.

<JAllan> js: is something is focused it should have priority

KP: Liking the staying geographically oriented solution.

<Greg> I consider the point of regard to be the text cursor location, or
the active end of the selection, or the focus element, or highlighted
search results, or the leading edge of the viewport (bottom edge when
scrolling down, or top edge when scrolling up), *whichever changed most
recently*.

<JAllan> The point of regard remains at the same relative location within
the visible portion of the viewport when the viewport is resized or is
scaled.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport size or scales the content the point
of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion
of the viewport

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport size or scales content the point of
regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of
the viewport.

GL: 1. I can resize. 2. I can change the zoom ratio. 3. What happens when
I'm showing text and change the font of some of the text.

<JAllan> ja: resize = changing window size, scale=change size of content

GL: Do I need to resize to continue to show the cursor?

<Greg> If "scale" means change the zoom ratio, then "resizing the content"
might mean changing font size, etc.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport or content size the point of regard
remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the
viewport

<Greg> "When the user changes the viewport's size or scaling, or the size
of its content,..."?

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport, content, or font size the point of
regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of
the viewport

Group continues to talk about definitions of what actions should be covered
here.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the point
of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion
of the viewport

<KimPatch> When the user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the
point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible
portion of the viewport

GL: Does this need to be optional?

group says yes, user should be able to override.

<KimPatch> When the user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the
point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible
portion of the viewport, by default

<KimPatch> By default, when the user changes viewport, content, or
rendering size the point of regard remains at the same relative location
within the visible portion of the viewport.

GL: Did we decide this doesn't cover changes that the user did n't cause?

<JAllan> *ACTION:* jallan to resubmit revised 1.8.x from action-630
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-662 - Resubmit revised 1.8.x from action-630 [on
Jim Allan - due 2011-11-17].

<JAllan> no meeting in 2 weeks - US thanksgiving
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jallan review css spec for
generated text in the dom, and propose adding information to the a11y api
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jallan to add column about IER presence on the uaag-total
table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jallan to resubmit revised 1.8.x from action-630
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action06]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add Wayne Dick's proposal for 1.7 to the
document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* kford to send mail to Wayne asking him to revise and
simplify glossary definitions. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* kford to send proposed assignments for SC needing
attention to list based on Jim's spreadsheet. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964