- From: Richards, Jan <jrichards@ocad.ca>
- Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:34:26 +0000
- To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
My action: ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent indicator when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) Cheers, Jan -- (Mr) Jan Richards, M.Sc. jrichards@ocad.ca | 416-977-6000 ext. 3957 | fax: 416-977-9844 Inclusive Design Research Centre (IDRC) | http://idrc.ocad.ca/ Faculty of Design | OCAD University > -----Original Message----- > From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org] On > Behalf Of Jim Allan > Sent: June 30, 2011 2:42 PM > To: WAI-ua > Subject: Minutes: 20 June 2011 User Agent Accessibility Guidelines > Working Group > > from: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html > > - DRAFT - > User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference > 30 Jun 2011 > > See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-irc > Attendees > > Present > jimallan, jspellman, kimP, MarkH > Regrets > KellyFord, Kelly > Chair > JimAllan > Scribe > jeanne > > Contents > > Topics > Announcements > review of Editor's Draft comments from group > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html > Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/ > Change to Overview > Summary of Action Items > > Summary of Action Items > [NEW] ACTION: jallan to write patrick about > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09] > [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes above. > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10] > [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07] > [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4 > Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of > content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different > types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. > (Level AA) [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04] > [NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with the > edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05] > [NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1 from > Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai- > ua/2011AprJun/0082.html > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03] > [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes, above. > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06] > [NEW] ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08] > [NEW] ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered > Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01] > [NEW] ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can > choose to render any types of alternative content that are present for > a given element. to the document [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02] > > <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011 > > <jeanneS> scribe: jeanne > Announcements > > <jeanneS> JA: Attended html5 media call Wed eve. Very technical, no > comments > > <jeanneS> ... iHenni is now at BBC and commented on WebAIM about SkipNav > review of Editor's Draft comments from group > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html > > <jeanneS> JA: Like the clarity of 1.1.1 - especially "non-text content" > > Re 1.1.1, the new version is actually considerably longer than the > existing text, but "For each type of non-text content" is a valuable > addition. > > Re 1.1.2 (was 1.1.3), I disagree with the new text dropping the > requirement that the indicator needs to be presented "along with" the > element it refers to, as I don't think it should be adequate to merely > display a binary indicator on the status bar that says there is at > least one element on the page with alternative content. > > <jeanneS> Jeanne: Are there examples of 1.1.2? > > <jeanneS> Greg: Opera > > <jeanneS> Greg: entered comments (above) > > <jeanneS> Jim: If you have an audio indicator that sounds if something > is there. > > Should probably be "presented" rather than "displayed" to accommodate > non-visual browsers. > > <jeanneS> Greg: so "presented" rather than "displayed" > > <jeanneS> ... we could define "display" as including audio. > > Similarly, I would not consider it adequate for the user agent to have > a menu item that brings up a dialog with a list of all the elements > that have alternative content. > > That's why I propose we restore the wording about presenting "along > with". > > <jeanneS> Mark: Temporarily or spacial adjacent > > <jeanneS> Greg: we have the phrase in the original version, but it was > omitted in Jan's rewrite > > <jeanneS> Kim: Presented is better than displayed, even if we included > it in the definition. It is a better mental map,. > > The original version read "1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative > Content: The user can specify that alternative content indicators be > rendered along with elements that have alternative content (e.g. an > icon to indicate an image has a short text alternative). (Level A)" > What would you change other than changing "alternative content > indicators" to "indicators"? > > Oh, and Jan's also took out the inline example. > > <Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can > specify that indicators be presented with rendered content when > unrendered alternative content is present for the rendered content. > (Level A) > > 1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify > that indicators be presented along with elements that have alternative > content. > > 1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify > that alternative content indicators be rendered along with rendered > elements that have alternative content. > > Re 1.1.3 (was 1.1.2), I think we lost the important concept that it's > all about changing the display options for a specific element, rather > than for a content type. > > <Jan> ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered > Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-573 - Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate > Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with [on Jan > Richards - due 2011-07-07]. > > <JAllan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to > render any types of alternative content that are present for a given > element. > > It was about not telling the browser to show all alt text, but (for > example) to select an image and tell the browser to show alt text for > that image. > > Jim's version looks reasonable, at first glance. > > <JAllan> ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user > can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present > for a given element. to the document [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-574 - Add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: > The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that > are present for a given element. to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman > - due 2011-07-07]. > > <jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1 > from Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai- > ua/2011AprJun/0082.html > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-575 - Update document with new text for > 1.1.1 from Jan email > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html > [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07]. > > Re 1.1.4, my only real concern about the rewrite is that it introduces > the limitation that it's only about alternative content for *non-text > content*, so it would no longer apply to things like abbreviations. > > The older version was "1.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): The > user can specify the fallback order in which to render alternative > content. (Level AA)", which applied to text and non-text content with > alternative content. > > Jan has a good question, whether the title attribute would be > alternative content, and whether 1.1.2 should require the UA to > indicate presence of title on text and/or non-text elements. > > <JAllan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): > For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to > render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types > are not present. (Level AA) > > <jeanneS> JA: Our SC references WCAG which says it is AAA. > > <Jan> WCAG also has this defn > http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#suppcontentdef > > <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#multimedia-alt-textdef > > <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#alt-time-based-mediadef > > I note that "type of content" is not defined, but is used in passing > as generic types "(such as video or sound)" rather than specific > element types (e.g. yes for object, no for img). Probably not > important. > > <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#text-altdef > > <jeanneS> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): > For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to > render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types > are not present. (Level AA) > > <Jan> (was just pasting in links to alternative type definitions in > WCAG2) > > <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4 > Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of > content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different > types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. > (Level AA) [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-576 - Update 1.1.4 with the text above. > 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each > type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render > different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are > not present. (Level AA) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07]. > Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/ > > Here's the new version using <ins> and <del> to indicate where the > specific changes were: > > 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user can > override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e. > <del>access key</del><ins>accesskey attribute in HTML</ins>). The user > must have an option to save the override of user interface keyboard > shortcuts so that the rebinding persists beyond the current session. > (Level AA) > > Intent: <del>Content authors may utilize the Accesskey > attribute</del><ins>Depending on the markup language, content authors > may be able</ins> to define short cut keys which allow quick access to > specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. <ins>For > example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define > these short cut keys.</ins> The author-selected short... > ... cuts may utilize keystrokes that are unique to their site, > differing from conventions used, and or familiar, to users of other > similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of > assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a > consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or > functions across the sites they visit. > > <Jan> ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic > > <Jan> oops - I meant i agree to ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be > technology agnostic > > <jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with > the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-577 - Update 2.3.5 with text from survey > with the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [on Jeanne F > Spellman - due 2011-07-07]. > > <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user > can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e. > accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the > override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding > persists beyond the current session. (Level AA) > > <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may > be able to define short cut keys which allow change quick access to > specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For > example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define > these short cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize > keystrokes that are unique to their site, differing from... > > <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other > similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of > assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a > consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or > functions across the sites they visit. > > <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user > can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e. > accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the > override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding > persists beyond the current session. (Level AA) > > <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may > be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific > elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in > HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short > cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that > are unique to their site, differing from... > > <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other > similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of > assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a > consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or > functions across the sites they visit. > > Maybe the title should also be tech neutral, "Allow Override of > Keyboard Shortcuts", or the like. > > <JAllan> "Allow Override of Content Keybindings" > > <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Content Keybindings (former 2.1.11) : > The user can override any recognized author supplied content > keybinding (i.e. accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an > option to save the override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so > that the rebinding persists beyond the current session. (Level AA) > > <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may > be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific > elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in > HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short > cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that > are unique to their site, differing from... > > <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other > similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of > assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a > consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or > functions across the sites they visit. > > <JAllan> close action-544 > > <trackbot> ACTION-544 Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic...author > defined keyboard shortcuts in rendered content closed > Change to Overview > > <jeanneS> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq3 > > <JAllan> support alternative input and output including assistive > technology > > How about two bullet items: > > * support assistive technology such as alternative input and output > utilities > > * support the user's choice of input styles, such as keyboard or mouse > > <mhakkinen> support assistive technologies to enable alternative input > mechanisms and output modalities > > * support multiple input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and speech > > * be configurable, so the user can adjust it to meet their needs > > * be discoverable, so the user can learn to use it easily > > * be predictable, so the user does not have to react and compensate > for the user agent behaving in ways they did not expect > > * enable optional self-pacing, for users who need additional time to > view, read, comprehend, or respond > > * adhere to published conventions where they do not reduce accessibility > > * support assistive technology such as alternative input and output > utilities > > * support usr's choice of input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and > speech > > * support the user's choice of output styles, such as text, graphics, > and speech > > <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes, > above. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-578 - Update overview with text from > minutes, above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07]. > > <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-579 - Delete SC 1.2.3 [on Jeanne F Spellman > - due 2011-07-07]. > > <JAllan> ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08] > > <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jimallan > > <jeanneS> [discussion of greg's comments] > > <JAllan> ACTION: jallan to write patrick about > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-580 - Write patrick about > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [on Jim Allan > - due 2011-07-07]. > > <JAllan> 4.1.x Programmatic Write Access: If the user can modify the > state or value of a piece of content through the *user interface* > (e.g. by checking a box or editing a text area), the same degree of > write access is available programmatically. (Level A) : > > <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes > above. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-581 - Add 4.1.x using the text in the > minutes above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07]. > > Does this really add anything beyond 4.1.1 and 4.1.2? Not sure. > > (That's re Simon's proposed SC starting "If a User Agent keeps an > internal representation of the user content...") > > If a platform that does not support a platform accessibility API like > MSAA, and thus 4.1.1 does not apply, 4.1.2 would require the UA to > expose information about each element, but would not require it to > expose information about relationships between them such as any > *order*. Simon's would do that. > > > [End of minutes] > > -- > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756 > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/ > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
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