W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > July to September 2010

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Minutes for 30 Sep 2010

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:38:15 +0100
Message-ID: <4CA4D917.5030406@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
30 Sep 2010

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the 
meeting of 30 September [recorded in 

HTML Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-ua-minutes.html
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JulSep/0105.html

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-ua-irc

Jeanne, Gregory_Rosmaita, sharper, kford, +1.617.325.aaaa, Kim_Patch, 
Hakkinen_Mark, Mark_Hakkinen, Harper_Simon, Ford_Kelly, Spellman_Jeanne, 
Rosmaita_Gregory, Greg_Lowney
Jim, Richards_Jan, Jan
Ford_Kelly, Allan_James


* Topics
1. HTML5 Concerns/Bugs
2. HTML 5 Media Group Request
3. Finish Writers Meeting Survey#4 - 
4. 3.6.3 Option Range Intent, Examples and Related Resources.
5. 3.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced) Intent, Examples and Related 
* Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 30 September 2010

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper

Date: Thursday, 30 September 2010

Time: 1:00-2:30 pm Boston Local Time, USA (18:00-19:30 UTC/GMT) 

Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use 
+44.203.318.0479 (London)

editor versions

Guidelines: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100920/

Implementing: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/

Public documents

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-UAAG20-20100617/

Implementing - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100617/

-- Attendance survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20100707/

-- Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html

-- Please monitor your open Action Items: 

-- Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open s updated 

zakim: code?

<oedipus> minutes from HTML A11y TF telecon 2010-09-30 
HTML5 Concerns/Bugs

<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if HTML5 can be addressed first

<oedipus> make @title a required attribute of FRAME and IFRAME 

GR: Keyboard requirements approved by task force so logging as a bug
... JAs suggestion for @title requirement of FRAME and IFRAME - people 
not supportive - we need to take this bug on in bugzilla
... As issues get logged HTML5 can comment directly in the bug
... Also filing a number of other comprehensive bugs.
... After tomorrow no bugs will be logged as pre-last call bugs - but 
bugs already in (even if closed by the editor) will be pre-last call bugs
... will compile bug list and send to UA list

JS: will be back-up bug entry person if GR has systems failure before 
close of business Boston Time.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/pf_requirements_revision

<kford> zakim close item 5

KP: Going directly to links - is this more of a UI issue?

GR: yes - would like to talk with KP more about it - GR could not 
convince people it is not a UA issue

JS: about what an other codes and what the UA does ie providing a 
numeric for each link is something the UA should do, not the content 

GR: we can work together on this - KP agrees - post meeting (meeting) agreed
HTML 5 Media Group Request


KF: Media Group have asked us to review a document:

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist

KF: is it accurate if they say we don't have a direct corrolation 2) how 
important do we think this is?
... First req - provide an indication that descriptions are available 
and are active or nonactive
... they say that it is not required for UAAG conformance - we say it is 
... We don't use 'audio description' ...
... they have 130 entries which we need to review and give answers to
... Discussion - Logistics of doing this.
... Meeting arranged - JS: KF: MH:

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can 
have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that have 
alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of content 
that has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or captions). 
(Level A).

<mhakkinen> MH stepping away for a few mins

RESOLUTION: Meeting arranged - JS KF MH
Finish Writers Meeting Survey#4 - 
3.6.3 Option Range Intent, Examples and Related Resources.


A 1/ C 1 / D 3

GL: 3.6.1 doesn't say anything about the range
... Should we combine the 2 sc's 3.6.1 + 3.6.3 - but many iffs

KP: what is the advantage of combining - how clear will it be?
... add 3.6.3 after 3.6.1

GL Combines this to be

<Greg> Here's the first draft of merging 3.6.3 into 3.6.1:

<Greg> 3.6.1 Configure Text: The user can globally set the following 
characteristics of visually rendered text content, overriding any 
specified by the author or user agent defaults (Level A):

<Greg> • (a) text scale (i.e., the general size of text) ,

<Greg> • (b) font family, and

<Greg> • (c) text color (i.e., foreground and background).

<Greg> The range of options for each text characteristic includes at 
least (Level A):

<Greg> • (a) the range offered by global preference settings supported 
by the operating environment (i.e configured though the Control Panel or 
System) utility, or

<Greg> • (b) if no such utility is available, the range supported by the 
conventional APIs of the operating environment for drawing text.

GL needs to be smoothed


RESOLUTION: GR: to complete 435 - 

<kford> Gregory going to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3

KF: to accept GL's changes for beginning of intent for 3.6.3

<Greg> Propose rewriting beginning of Intent for 3.6.3 (which might be 
folded into 3.6.1) to read "Users need to able to access a wide range of 
font sizes, styles, colors, and other attributes in order to find the 
combination that works best for their particular needs. For example, 
some users want to increase font size to make text more legible, while 
other users want to reduce the font size to...

<Greg> ...decrease the need to scroll the content. "

<Greg> Note that I changed to from "visual needs" to "needs" because 
it's more general than just vision.

KF: Intent and examples also need to be merged in this case

<oedipus> KimPatch, you might be interested in a previous attempt to get 
direct access to links and form controls: 

<Greg> What I just pasted in would replace the Intent for 3.6.1 and the 
first sentence of the intent of 3.6.3.

GL: JS could combine these two and then await GR's updates

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of 
the meeting of 30 September [recorded in 

<trackbot> Created ACTION-453 - Combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the 
minutes of the meeting of 30 September [on Jeanne Spellman - due 

RESOLUTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the 
meeting of 30 September

RESOLUTION: We will need to revisit 3.6.3 after GRs changes which will 
drive changes to the intent para
3.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced) Intent, Examples and Related 


<Greg> That is, changes to how the combined SC describes the required 
range of options will drive changes to the Intent paragraph.

Accept 1/ Changes 1 / Discuss 2

<Greg> My attempt to explain *why* this SC was needed, by changing the 
last sentence to: "The user may find different alternatives more useful 
or appropriate depending on the nature of the document and their task. 
By specifying which item(s) to render by default, and the order of the 
cascade of alternatives to render when the author failed to provide some 
types of alternatives, they can ensure that...

<Greg> ...the information presented to them makes their task as 
efficient as possible."

<oedipus> plus 1 to concept expressed by GL

<oedipus> GL = Greg Lowney, not guideline

KF: / GL Discussion regarding 3.1.2 (not about a cascade of types) 3.1.4 
is about a cascade of types

<Greg> Kelly questions the title of "Rendering Alternative (Enhanced)", 
which was probably more appropriate before we changed the title of 3.1.2 
or the like.

GL: Intent of 3.1.4 could clarify that it is extending 3.1.2 - providing 
additional / complex alternatives
... the sc's are not written in a simple form - more in a legal format

<kford> do you want me to call you gregory, if so e-mail my number

<Greg> The upshot of 3.1 is that you should be able to see at a glance 
which pieces of content have alternatives like alt text or longdesc 
(3.1.1) and click on an item to see which alternatives are available for 
it (3.3.3); they can also choose at least one alternative like alt text 
to be always displayed (3.1.2), but it’s recommended that they also be 
able to specify a cascade, like alt text if...

<Greg> ...it’s there, otherwise longdesc, otherwise, filename, etc.

<oedipus> thanks, kelly, but i need to let my phones recharge

<oedipus> FYI, since you mentioned longdesc, HTML5 lacks a verbose 
description mechanism HTML Bug 10853: 

KP: Discussion re the desire to create these short overviews - when 
should it be done?

RESOLUTION: add agenda item to next call so that we can run through a 
few of these - KP proposes GL and KP to thrash out a couple more ready 
for discussion next Thursday.

<kford> what was your question Simon?

<kford> I don't think we have a clear action yet.

<kford> Let's leave it open in the minutes for now.

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 30 September 2010 18:39:30 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 20:38:41 UTC