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Minutes User Agent Teleconference for 22 July 2010

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:37:23 +0100
Message-ID: <4C488FE3.5070806@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
22 Jul 2010

HTML: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JulSep/0017.html
IRC log: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-irc

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Greg to Review the definition of "recognized", and see if 
modification is needed [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to change 3.1.2 to 3.1.2 Configurable Default 
Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types of 
alternative content to render by default. (Level A) [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to Update 3.1.1 SC to end end where the text in the 
case starts (cut out the second sentence) [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: kford to Summarise details / schedule of the informal 
meeting to the list. [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action01]
Attendees

Present
     +1.425.895.aaaa, Greg, sharper, Jan, kford, Jeanne, 
+1.617.325.aabb, Ford_Kelly, Harper_Simon, Lowney_Greg, Richards_Jan, 
Spellman_Jeanne, Patch_Kim
Regrets
     Hakkinen_Mark, Jim, Allan_James
Chair
     Ford_Kelly
Scribe
     Harper_Simon

Contents

     * Topics
          1. Action Item Review
          2. Coordinate details of informal UAAG writing meeting likely 
in early August.
          3. Tracking UAAG implementations - complete browser of choice 
in tracking doc and we'll discuss during meeting.
     * Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group 
Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper

<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 22 July 2010

Links to key Documents:

editor versions

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100618/

Implementing -

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100618/

Public documents

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-UAAG20-20100617/

Implementing - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100617/

-- Attendance survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20100707/

-- Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html

-- Please monitor your open Action Items:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

-- Open Issues:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open

<kford> /me thanks Simon for entering things.

<Jan> zaki, [IPcaller] is really Jan
Action Item Review
Coordinate details of informal UAAG writing meeting likely in early August.

KF Try 09:00 to 15:00 West Coast?

KF: 2nd and 3rd?

JR: Can Join

KF: Seems like we can try 12:00 to 18:00 East Coast Time
... Informal / try to create an agenda next week

SH: I'm on Vacation

KF: will follow up with MH re European participation

<scribe> ACTION: kford to Summarise details / schedule of the informal 
meeting to the list. [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-414 - Summarise details / schedule of the 
informal meeting to the list. [on Kelly Ford - due 2010-07-29].
Tracking UAAG implementations - complete browser of choice in tracking 
doc and we'll discuss during meeting.

KF: Started to look at this last week via our informal document

GL: people wanted to use columns, results for main browsers - opera has 
a lot complete
... Completed much work on firefox
... also added comments columns

JR: Gathering implementations really help highlight problem areas in a spec.

<Greg> Testing the guidelines against Firefox turned out to be very 
labor intensive, both because sometimes the success criteria prove 
ambiguous, in many cases you have to define, find, or create test cases, 
and in many cases you have to scour through lots of obscure documented 
and semi-documented advanced options to try to find if any will adjust 
the behavior you're testing.

KF: lets walk through guidelines and see what is implemented and what 
questions arise
... we should be able to see what SC's stand and which need more work.

ALL: General discussions on the 'What's Implemented Document'

<kford> This is the SC we are talking about.

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user has the 
ability to have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that 
have alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of 
content which has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or 
captions). In cases where the alternative content has different 
dimensions than the original content, the user has the option...

<kford> ...to specify how the layout/reflow of the document should be 
handled. (Level A).

<Greg> We're looking at 3.1.1. Kelly pointed out the 2nd sentence wasn't 
appropriate; Greg thought it was about the original content plus 
indicator, rather than the alternate content. General agreement to 
remove the second sentence, instead relying on the link to a separate 
success criterion about reflow options in the Related Resources section 
of the Implementing document.

<Greg> Kelly notes that while we refer the reader to one, we haven't yet 
added the SC on user control of layout/reflow, so we should make sure 
there's an action item for creating that.

KF: we are going to have a numbe rof non trivial changes

<Greg> Simon and Jan are concerned that if we're changing the SC as we 
go, test results will become invalid, so maybe we should not test too 
many browsers until the SCs are more firm.

<Greg> Greg agreed that changes to the SC will require a new worksheet 
and manually porting columns with test results, adapting for changes to 
SC, renumbering, etc.

<Greg> Simon suggests we split up the work of testing against one 
browser, rather than split our effort across five browsers at this early 
point.

<Greg> Simon says another alternative is divide the guidelines into 
sections assigned to different people, who will test them against a 
browser of their choice.

KF Lets focus on Principle 3 for the moment

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to Update 3.1.1 SC to end end where the text in 
the case starts (cut out the second sentence) [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-415 - Update 3.1.1 SC to end end where the 
text in the case starts (cut out the second sentence) [on Jeanne 
Spellman - due 2010-07-29].

<kford> 3.1.1 needs to be updated to say:

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user has the 
ability to have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that 
have alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of 
content which has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or captions).

<kford> . (Level A).

<kford> 3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: The user has a global 
option to specify which types of alternative content by default and, in 
cases where the alternative content has different dimensions than the 
original content, how the layout/reflow of the document should be 
handled. (Level A)

<Greg> For Firefox 3.6.6: Partial: Replacing images with alt text works 
for remote images but not for local images. Changing reflow might be 
possible with scripts or extensions.

GL: remove the reflow clause too

KF: agreed

KF/GL: What do we really mean by this?

GL: in implementing Document - KF but this doc is not by which we 
measure performance - JR Agree

<Greg> Kelly noted that the SC needs to say specifically which types of 
alternative content are and are not required.

KF: Get people to say how they interpreted 'alt content' when the 
specify their conformance claims

JR: Recognised alternatives - people define these and then allow them to 
mould their claims around this
... people specify their environment and then make a claim based on 
those specifications

GL: Minimum we want to allow as a requirement in the conf claim is a 
subset of the recomentations
... We can't just limit it to recognised things, as everything will be 
recognised. If we allow a subset of things then we should specify these.

<Greg> Jan points out that ATAG and UAAG use different meanings for 
"recognized".

GL: can we clarify in glossary

<scribe> ACTION: Greg to Review the definition of "recognized", and see 
if modification is needed [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-416 - Review the definition of "recognized", 
and see if modification is needed [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-07-29].

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to change 3.1.2 to 3.1.2 Configurable Default 
Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types of 
alternative content to render by default. (Level A) [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-417 - Change 3.1.2 to 3.1.2 Configurable 
Default Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types 
of alternative content to render by default. (Level A) [on Jeanne 
Spellman - due 2010-07-29].

<kford> 3.1.3 Browse and Render: The user can browse the alternatives, 
switch between them, and render them according to the following (Level 
A): * 1. synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, 
audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as 
their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and * 2. 
non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, lo

<kford> ng descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the 
original rendered content.

GL: Screen magnification is a case to allow the removal of images

KP: Multiple images on a page - with small amounts of text at the bottom 
may have problems for limited mobility of continual paging

GL: Attention deficit problems is also a case

ALL still discussing these but the call ends.

<Greg> We need to makes sure that some SC allows the user to turn off 
images, which is currently only addressed by 3.1.2 but poorly, as the 
current wording requires showing alternative text but doesn't require 
turning off images.


[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 22 July 2010 18:37:55 UTC

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