- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:38:14 -0400
- To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes
IRC Log:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc
Text of minutes:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
10 Jun 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatch
Regrets
Chair
Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford
Scribe
jeanne, kford
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Tracking UAAG implementations
2. [5]Promoting next working draft
3. [6]Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force
survey on media
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirem
ents/results
4. [7]Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
5. [8]3.10.11
6. [9]3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
7. [10]4.7.x
8. [11]5.3.6 Appropriate Language
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 June 2010
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
Tracking UAAG implementations
KF: We have a short term and long term need to track real world
implementations of UAAG, the short term is to see what our gaps are
in our success criteria, and long term to get our guidelines
approved. Does everyone have Excel available if we track it in that.
GL: Does Excel have the ability to share the document and let
everyone update it?
[suggestions of other formats - Google docs]
KF: We will list the success criteria and major browsers. Can
everyone look at their favorite browsers and see where they meet our
success criteria.
... I will send out a spreadsheet and ask everyone to help start
filling it in.
GL: Excel isn't the best format, because it doesn't allow things
like linking to screenshots, etc.
KF: This is just a start.
Promoting next working draft
JS: We will need to add a column for how to access the feature, as
we will need that to write test procedures.
<kford> scribe: kford
JS: The way I figure is our next draft is last working draft before
we try to have a last call.
W3C process tends to see a lot of people waiting for last call to
comment.
This can result in a 2nd last call.
JS: Key to avoide is to try and get a lot of reviews on the draft
before last call.
... Personal contact is the key.
... We need people from across the spectrum. Viudeo industry,
browser industry, disablity community, AT vendors.
... I'd like to see us try to pull out the stops to personally get
them to review.
... If possible CC me on this.
... Do not send to the list if you want personal contact addresses
to be private. List is public.
... I'd like to try and get 200 people to look at this.
... In the hopes that we'd end up with 50.
... Can people get behind this.
KP: Maybe not that many but yes.
GL: How many open issues and actions do we have that could impact
the document.
... Are we converging toward 0?
<jeanne> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
[13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media
[14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/res
ults
[14]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
<jeanne> KF: Jim asked for this survey to be added to the agenda.
The HTML5/A11y Task Force is looking for comments on this survey.
JS: The doc originated from the accessibility task force wanting to
have all the reqs for video and audio in one doc.
... the goal was to help HTML5 understand everything in one place.
... The document became to extensive that folks are now looking to
publish this for more groups.
... It broadened in scope and is different form what W3C might do
but is powerful in detailing media requirements acorss multiple
platforms.
group looking through doc at high level.
<jeanne> KP: The structural navigation does not seem to be robust. I
have seen players that allow advance by sentence.
<jeanne> KF: Does this media document show up gaps in our document?
Or do we see anything that is widely divergent from our document,
send a message to the list.
Survey [15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
[15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
3.10.11
<jeanne> [16]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results
[16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results
<jeanne> [discussion of Greg's comments]
<jeanne> KF: If we redefined viewport to exclude dialog boxes, could
you accept it?
<jeanne> GL: I'm not sure. If in my browser, I have (for example)
large menus, thick borders, and high contrast. So if I spawn a new
window, it has those features. But if it spawns a dialog box, does
it makes sense to have all those features in the dialog box? The
dialog box could end up with the full browser status bar, or menu
bar.
<jeanne> KF: this is for opening new windows, that if you open up a
new window, you get the features we already set.
<jeanne> GL: I'm not sure it wouldn't include CSS list boxes or
multiline edit controls.
<jeanne> JS: Could we put in a note that clarifies it?
<jeanne> SH: If it opens a non-specialized window, then it has to
follow the features. But the modal dialog boxes would be exluded,
because the author typically requests modal dialog boxes for
specific tasks. If the author doesn't, then it has to follow the
success criteria.
<jeanne> ... the browser generates these out of it's standard
toolkit. The browser knows what it is putting up on the screen. And
knows how to match it to the operating system look and feel.
<jeanne> JS: If the author generates their own dialog box and the
browser doesn't know it, then the browser should give it all the
options that the user says they need.
<jeanne> SH: If an author decides to write their own dialog boxes,
then they may get a "dodgey" result.
<jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, does not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
<jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with
Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria:
Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide
limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested
features that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Update 3.10.11 to accept the survey
with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success
criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
<jeanne>
[18]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12
[18] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
(Level AAA) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Update document 3.10.12 with Marks'
edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's
position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an
audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the
current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently
visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal
dimension. (Level AAA) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
4.7.x
<jeanne> Has rewrites pending for next weeks survey.
5.3.6 Appropriate Language
<jeanne> It is missing the level.
<jeanne> KF: I think AA.
<jeanne> GL: I don't know how hard it would be to do. I think in
some languages, like right to left languages, it might be very hard
to do, but I don't know.
<jeanne> KF: This is vaguely written "react appropriately".
<jeanne> GL: If we try not to make it so broad, that we can't figure
out what would not be required is a problem.
<jeanne> GL: We know that it should pass the language to a speech
syntheser. Use an appropriate font, if available. Correctly handling
left to right, right to left, in terms of read aloud, or caret
browsing.
<jeanne> SH: It seems conflated to me, that it could be language or
linguistics.
<jeanne> If the user agent recognizes a change to the natural
language in rendered content, it uses the speech synthesis
appropriate to that language, if available.
<jeanne> SH: this part seems to be about voicing, if it should also
be about gender appropriate.
<jeanne> GL: I don't think there is a way to code speech gender
changes.
<jeanne> ... something with voice gender changes, would already have
that necessary information coded, so the user agent wouldn't hve to
take an special actions, except pass the information from the
author.
<jeanne> GL: My proposal is make this just about speech and font.
Use voice and fonts appropriate to the changes in natural language.
<jeanne> When rendering content use voice characteristics and fonts
appropriate to the recognized changes in natural language.
<jeanne> SH: is this more like 3.5.8?
<jeanne> KF: I propose we delete the font stuff and move it into 3.8
and make it a AA.
<jeanne> [agreement]
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font
reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Update the document to remove the
font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [on Jeanne Spellman -
due 2010-06-17].
<jeanne> chair: Kelly
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's
edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note:
Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited
functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features
that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
(Level AAA) [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font reference
in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [24]scribe.perl version 1.135
([25]CVS log)
$Date: 2010/06/10 18:36:35 $
_________________________________________________________
[24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [26]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/
[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Found Scribe: jeanne
Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne
Found Scribe: kford
Inferring ScribeNick: kford
Scribes: jeanne, kford
ScribeNicks: jeanne, kford
Default Present: kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatc
h
Present: kford Jeanne Greg sharper +1.617.325.aaaa KimPatch
Found Date: 10 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [27]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: js
[27] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html
End of [28]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
10 Jun 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatch
Regrets
Chair
Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford
Scribe
jeanne, kford
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Tracking UAAG implementations
2. [5]Promoting next working draft
3. [6]Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force
survey on media
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirem
ents/results
4. [7]Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
5. [8]3.10.11
6. [9]3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
7. [10]4.7.x
8. [11]5.3.6 Appropriate Language
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 June 2010
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
Tracking UAAG implementations
KF: We have a short term and long term need to track real world
implementations of UAAG, the short term is to see what our gaps are
in our success criteria, and long term to get our guidelines
approved. Does everyone have Excel available if we track it in that.
GL: Does Excel have the ability to share the document and let
everyone update it?
[suggestions of other formats - Google docs]
KF: We will list the success criteria and major browsers. Can
everyone look at their favorite browsers and see where they meet our
success criteria.
... I will send out a spreadsheet and ask everyone to help start
filling it in.
GL: Excel isn't the best format, because it doesn't allow things
like linking to screenshots, etc.
KF: This is just a start.
Promoting next working draft
JS: We will need to add a column for how to access the feature, as
we will need that to write test procedures.
<kford> scribe: kford
JS: The way I figure is our next draft is last working draft before
we try to have a last call.
W3C process tends to see a lot of people waiting for last call to
comment.
This can result in a 2nd last call.
JS: Key to avoide is to try and get a lot of reviews on the draft
before last call.
... Personal contact is the key.
... We need people from across the spectrum. Viudeo industry,
browser industry, disablity community, AT vendors.
... I'd like to see us try to pull out the stops to personally get
them to review.
... If possible CC me on this.
... Do not send to the list if you want personal contact addresses
to be private. List is public.
... I'd like to try and get 200 people to look at this.
... In the hopes that we'd end up with 50.
... Can people get behind this.
KP: Maybe not that many but yes.
GL: How many open issues and actions do we have that could impact
the document.
... Are we converging toward 0?
<jeanne> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
[13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media
[14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/res
ults
[14]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
<jeanne> KF: Jim asked for this survey to be added to the agenda.
The HTML5/A11y Task Force is looking for comments on this survey.
JS: The doc originated from the accessibility task force wanting to
have all the reqs for video and audio in one doc.
... the goal was to help HTML5 understand everything in one place.
... The document became to extensive that folks are now looking to
publish this for more groups.
... It broadened in scope and is different form what W3C might do
but is powerful in detailing media requirements acorss multiple
platforms.
group looking through doc at high level.
<jeanne> KP: The structural navigation does not seem to be robust. I
have seen players that allow advance by sentence.
<jeanne> KF: Does this media document show up gaps in our document?
Or do we see anything that is widely divergent from our document,
send a message to the list.
Survey [15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
[15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
3.10.11
<jeanne> [16]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results
[16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results
<jeanne> [discussion of Greg's comments]
<jeanne> KF: If we redefined viewport to exclude dialog boxes, could
you accept it?
<jeanne> GL: I'm not sure. If in my browser, I have (for example)
large menus, thick borders, and high contrast. So if I spawn a new
window, it has those features. But if it spawns a dialog box, does
it makes sense to have all those features in the dialog box? The
dialog box could end up with the full browser status bar, or menu
bar.
<jeanne> KF: this is for opening new windows, that if you open up a
new window, you get the features we already set.
<jeanne> GL: I'm not sure it wouldn't include CSS list boxes or
multiline edit controls.
<jeanne> JS: Could we put in a note that clarifies it?
<jeanne> SH: If it opens a non-specialized window, then it has to
follow the features. But the modal dialog boxes would be exluded,
because the author typically requests modal dialog boxes for
specific tasks. If the author doesn't, then it has to follow the
success criteria.
<jeanne> ... the browser generates these out of it's standard
toolkit. The browser knows what it is putting up on the screen. And
knows how to match it to the operating system look and feel.
<jeanne> JS: If the author generates their own dialog box and the
browser doesn't know it, then the browser should give it all the
options that the user says they need.
<jeanne> SH: If an author decides to write their own dialog boxes,
then they may get a "dodgey" result.
<jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, does not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
<jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with
Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria:
Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide
limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested
features that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Update 3.10.11 to accept the survey
with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success
criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
<jeanne>
[18]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12
[18] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
(Level AAA) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Update document 3.10.12 with Marks'
edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's
position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an
audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the
current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently
visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal
dimension. (Level AAA) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
4.7.x
<jeanne> Has rewrites pending for next weeks survey.
5.3.6 Appropriate Language
<jeanne> It is missing the level.
<jeanne> KF: I think AA.
<jeanne> GL: I don't know how hard it would be to do. I think in
some languages, like right to left languages, it might be very hard
to do, but I don't know.
<jeanne> KF: This is vaguely written "react appropriately".
<jeanne> GL: If we try not to make it so broad, that we can't figure
out what would not be required is a problem.
<jeanne> GL: We know that it should pass the language to a speech
syntheser. Use an appropriate font, if available. Correctly handling
left to right, right to left, in terms of read aloud, or caret
browsing.
<jeanne> SH: It seems conflated to me, that it could be language or
linguistics.
<jeanne> If the user agent recognizes a change to the natural
language in rendered content, it uses the speech synthesis
appropriate to that language, if available.
<jeanne> SH: this part seems to be about voicing, if it should also
be about gender appropriate.
<jeanne> GL: I don't think there is a way to code speech gender
changes.
<jeanne> ... something with voice gender changes, would already have
that necessary information coded, so the user agent wouldn't hve to
take an special actions, except pass the information from the
author.
<jeanne> GL: My proposal is make this just about speech and font.
Use voice and fonts appropriate to the changes in natural language.
<jeanne> When rendering content use voice characteristics and fonts
appropriate to the recognized changes in natural language.
<jeanne> SH: is this more like 3.5.8?
<jeanne> KF: I propose we delete the font stuff and move it into 3.8
and make it a AA.
<jeanne> [agreement]
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font
reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Update the document to remove the
font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [on Jeanne Spellman -
due 2010-06-17].
<jeanne> chair: Kelly
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's
edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note:
Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited
functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features
that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
(Level AAA) [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font reference
in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 10 June 2010 18:38:46 UTC