- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:33:01 -0500
- To: WAI-UA list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4AFC62ED.90106@redstartsystems.com>
*Minutes:*
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html
*IRC Log:*
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-irc
Text of minutes:
with the
W3C
- DRAFT -
*User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference*
12 Nov 2009
See also: IRC log
Attendees <http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-agenda.rdf>
Present
Greg, Jeanne, KimPatch, allanj, iheni, kford, mth
Regrets
Chair
Jim_Allan, Kelly_Ford
Scribe
KimPatch
Contents
* Topicsin <http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
1. TPAC Recap <http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#item01>
2. Meeting Survey -
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/12nov09/
<http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#item02>
* Summary of Action Items
<http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<trackbot> Date: 12 November 2009
<mth> will join by phone in a few minutes
<AllanJ> scribe: KimPatch
TPAC Recap
Kelly: face-to-face Thursday Friday Wednesday afternoon -- I felt we
worked well together. We started looking at our techniques -- intent,
examples, resources
<AllanJ>
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20091106/MasterUAAG20091106.html
Kelly: speech input demonstration refreshing to help us think about ways
to expedite commands that don't force the speech user to go through the
keyboard or mouse model -- that was reinforced
... meeting minutes have links to other presentations
... progress on section five guidelines -- for some segments of the
disabled and aging population still too hard to use -- anything we can
do to make controls discoverable
... HTML five was a hot topic
protocols on formats group trying to drive review -- the ascent of a
joint task force between HTML five and protocols and formats to make or
progress on accessibility issues
<AllanJ> Mark and Jim are members of HTML5 A11y Taskforce
three broad areas -- canvas accessibility, media accessibility, overall
adds a lot of things
Kelly: turning our comments into bugs
Jim: Mark and I spent two hours in the accessibility group. when our
media accessibility comes up again, there are a couple of people from
that meeting I want to invite.
Mark: it was good to see TV exec. understand.
Jim: we were able to pipe up and say we are to have guidelines for that
Jean: the received a number of comments from the W3C team about our
group being so visible -- dedication, enthusiasm, that was very nice to
hear
<kford> html 5 task force info http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
Greg: the way we were working -- we tried breaking out into pairs, that
worked out pretty well
Jim: hammered on and reorganized action items down to about 35 -- it
would be different it clear that while before the end of the year
... maybe take some of the writing off-line
<kford> html 5 task force mailing list.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
Jim: possible face-to-face in January?
<jeanne> I am available
<AllanJ> Jim Available
possible
Week of the 18th in Austin, 2 1/2 days
Jim: or UC Sun
Meeting Survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/12nov09/
Jim: 4.5.6 all or just accessibility related -- difficult to tell
<AllanJ> KP: restoring to default is getting back to a known state. that
is important. even if it is not the best for a particular.
Greg: 5.8 restoring defaults outside the user interface accomplishes
that better
<AllanJ> GL: 4.5.8 changing settings from outside the UA
Greg: to the less useful one be level a?
Kelly: do browsers have (4.5.6) today
Greg: Firefox lets you specify user profile
Kelly: IE does
Greg: question is is there a sitting inside the browser to specify user
settings
... the other question is what is the thing that for either of these
would justify level A
<kford> One example of how to restore FF
http://www.universefirefox.com/how-to/restore-firefox-default-settings-without-uninstalling-it
Jim: if there aren't any we can always knock it back to AA
Kelly: IE has restore feature
Jim: we'll leave it at A pending last call report if no objections
<AllanJ> *ACTION:* Jeanne to update draft 4.5.6 Restore all to default.
The user can restore all preference settings to their default values.
(Level A) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-244 - Update draft 4.5.6 Restore all to
default. The user can restore all preference settings to their default
values. (Level A) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-11-19].
<AllanJ> NOTE: The user must not be required to know or enter the
default values.
Greg: groups subjective
Kelly: I think the ambiguity is acceptable given the overall initiative
that it's trying to move the industry towards
<AllanJ> *ACTION:* Jeanne to update draft 4.5.7 Restore related
preferences to default. The user can restore groups of related
preference settings to their default values (e.g. reset keyboard
shortcuts, reset colors and sizes of rendered content, etc.). (Level AA)
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-245 - Update draft 4.5.7 Restore related
preferences to default. The user can restore groups of related
preference settings to their default values (e.g. reset keyboard
shortcuts, reset colors and sizes of rendered content, etc.). (Level AA)
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-11-19].
<AllanJ> NOTE: Allowing the user to reset groups of related preference
settings is more valuable than merely providing the ability to reset all
preference settings together, because some users will be unable to use
the product without a few specific custom settings. [@@This may be
better in the understanding document@@]
Jim: 4.5.8
<Greg> Suggest changing "This allows the user to configure a product
that would be inaccessible in its default state" to end with "in its
default or current state".
Greg: seems more important than the one we put at single-A
Kelly: my biggest concern about level is from an implementation
perspective you're asking a manufacturer to do something outside their
main application
Greg: commandline
Kelly: if you have to fix it important, but in the real world are things
ever so screwed up that you can't do anything until it hit some kind of
reset
Greg: analogy is compare with sticky keys -- you can' t get there
without having turned on and the first place
Kelly: analogy different -- by the time you get to the browser you've
resolved
Greg: seems easier than 4.6
Jim: this is filling and around the edges -- if the interface is messed
up for there is a setting you can't get to you've already failed 4.1...
... 4.5 is the guideline -- store preference settings
two different methods good for different users
Greg: looking at this in context it would be more useful if it wasn't
restore default, but change settings -- more generalized
<Greg> For comparison, here is from ISO 9241-171:
<Greg> 8.2.5 Provide user-preference profiles
<Greg> Software should enable users to create, save, edit and recall
profiles of preference settings, including input and output
characteristics, without having to carry out any restart that would
cause a change of state or data.
<Greg> NOTE 1 For systems that provide access for multiple users, such
as library systems, conversion back to a default profile can be advisable.
<AllanJ> proposed: Change preference setting outside the UA
Greg: I'm willing to live with AA even though I think it's very
important accessibility feature
<AllanJ> *ACTION:* Jeanne to update the draft 4.5.8 Change preference
setting outside the UI: The user can adjust preference settings from
outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-246 - Update the draft 4.5.8 Change preference
setting outside the UI: The user can adjust preference settings from
outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA) [on Jeanne Spellman -
due 2009-11-19].
<AllanJ> NOTE: This allows the user to configure a product that would be
inaccessible in its default state.
<AllanJ> EXAMPLE 1: A user agent ships with a separate utility for
resetting or loading user preference settings.
<AllanJ> EXAMPLE 2: Holding down a modifier keys or specifying a
command-line switch when starting the user agent could force it to use
the default settings, or previously used and known-good settings, or a
specified user profile.
<AllanJ> [@@note and examples may be better in the understanding
document@@]
<AllanJ> close ACTION-201
*Summary of action items
[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne to update draft 4.5.6 Restore all to default.
The user can restore all preference settings to their default values.
(Level A) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne to update draft 4.5.7 Restore related
preferences to default. The user can restore groups of related
preference settings to their default values (e.g. reset keyboard
shortcuts, reset colors and sizes of rendered content, etc.). (Level AA)
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne to update the draft 4.5.8 Change preference
setting outside the UI: The user can adjust preference settings from
outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
--
___________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems, Inc., makers of Utter Command
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly
Patch on Speech <http://www.redstartsystems.com/blog/> blog
Redstart Systems <http://twitter.com/RedstartSystems> on Twitter
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 12 November 2009 19:33:40 UTC