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minutes of 26 March UAWG teleconference

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:05:25 -0400
Message-ID: <49CBC3E5.7050906@w3.org>
To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JanMar/0091.html

Minutes
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html

Summary of Action Items
ACTION: JA to and JA and MH to come up with inital LC comments on ARIA 
ACTION: JR to Formulate simplified version with alt still required 
ACTION: KF to communicate current alt opinion to CG

Text of Minutes
W3C
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
26 Mar 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
     Harper_Simon, kford, Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards, Mark_Hakkinen, 
Jeanne_Spellman
Regrets
     Henny_Swan
Chair
     Jim_Allan
Scribe
     JR

Contents

     * Topics
          1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
          2. Consensus on alt 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/TextAlternativeProposal
          3. CSUN Discussion
          4. Survey Results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/
          5. Web security last call 
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wsc-ui-20090226/
          6. Current editors draft actions and comments 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/
          7. WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
     * Summary of Action Items





<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2009

<KFord> rrs agent, make minutes

<KFord> zakim microsoft is kford

<KFord> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-agenda.rdf

<KFord> zakim take up item 1

<scribe> Scribe: JR

<KFord> zakim list agenda
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?

KF: I'm still waiting for JB to make me offical...
... JA is asking me to be more active in running meetings
Consensus on alt 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/TextAlternativeProposal

JS: I have extended the attendance survey

KF: We started on the alt concensus - overall WAI feedback to HTML5
... What feedback do we have? SHould figure it out today
... Any thoughts

JS: I like what you were saying Kelly about it being too complicated
... I've been asking people about that

MH: Question...has this doc been sent to HTML5 yet?

KF: My understanding...it has not been sent yet
... WAI-CG asking for WAI feedback first

JR: KF is correct

KF: So do we think we can stand behind this?

JR: Not perfect but I can stand behind it

MH: bottom line?

JR,JS: Some form of alt is required

JR: But still may not meet HTML5's hope for validity without alt

MH: Bug me: absence of something is said to be indicator of the image
... I'd like to see role required to resoundingly say image is an image

<jeanne> JR: It was a difficult discussion because some said that 
whatever we did had to be backwards compatible. If we made "role" 
required, it would break every image on the Web.

MH: Understood

<jeanne> JR: The absence of a value for alt was the crux of the problem, 
that there wasn't a way to show whether it was missing from being 
ignored or whether it was a decorative image

KF: My perspective...assuming a lot of intelligent people...but I'm not 
comfortable
... IN HTML4 I know what I have to do
... For accessibility
... I would be ok with 1) use alt="meaningful" and 2) use 
role="presentation" along with alt=""

MH: I'd support that

KF: clarify 2) is a warning

<jeanne> JR: alt is still required, and if alt="" then also use role = 
"presentation"

<jeanne> JR: alt="" cannot have two means - 1) I want validity and don't 
care about accessibility OR 2) I care about accessibiliy and this image 
is decorative.

<jeanne> KF: I have a concern that role="presentation" may be removed 
from the DOM and lost.

KF: There is concern with role=presentation
... We could take this up later

<jeanne> KF: We can take that up as part of ARIA last call discussion.

JR: Points out the need for repetitive alt if author wants to use 
labelled-by

KF: That's my concern...going to aria forces users to have latest and 
greatest

JA: Process for commenting?

JR: Indiv or group.

JA: Suggestions wanted?

JR: Yes

JA: Ofk so could we vote on UA proposals next week

KF: Two actions 1) communicate to CG - we do not have concensus, we will 
be looking at alternatives
... One alternative could be not concensus form UAAG
... We owe them a mail before wed. that KF will do

<KFord> ACTION: kford communicate current alt opinion to CG. [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Formulate simplified version with alt still 
required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Formulate simplified version with alt 
still required [on Jan Richards - due 2009-04-02].

<jeanne> ACTION: KF to communicate current alt opinion to CG [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Communicate current alt opinion to CG 
[on Kelly Ford - due 2009-04-02].

<KFord> ACTION: kford update CG on alt status [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford

KF: Other thoughts

MH: Will send thoughts to list
... Concerned with less capable device fallback
... How much ARIA support

KF: Firefox, IE8, Safari, not sure about Opera
... HTML5 itslef...bits and pieces in all browsers
CSUN Discussion

KF: Most of JA's thoughts in post

JA: Henny wanted to know where slides are?

JS: I could send PDF to group then figure out how to post

JA: Thought presentation went well
... Tough week for me, but went well - got thoughts across
... Heard some people say "onerous"...but not constructive...
... But maybe we can have another drfat out by end of May

KF: Anyone we should target for recruitment?

JS: I had a lot of followup
... Mentions Microsoft, Mozilla, NVDA, Apple
... Also spoke with someone who was on TEITAC

JA: I got some other contacts

KF: Anything we can do to recruit them would be great.
Survey Results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/

KF: Let's leave survey to next week
Web security last call http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wsc-ui-20090226/

KF: Jim sent some thoughts.

JA: I just thought there were a bunch of concepts we could 
use..."primary, secondary interfaces"...
... Couple things to communicate to web security people...they should 
reference UAAG as well as just WCAG
... Other than that, just some definitional concerns
... One was level of alerts
... e.g., Caution alrets, danger alerts....how to communicate these

KF: Sounds good

JA: I think we can use this to make our GL better and give them some 
stuff too
Current editors draft actions and comments 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/

KF: THing to note is that we did release a draft...any feedback yet?

JS: Not sure

KF: please evangelize this draft...blogs...social networking etc.
... UAAG still important...we need to get the word out
... We need to succeed

JS: Agree+much greater interest than in the past
... No feedback yet
WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/

KF: Date moved to April ??
... Prob we'll ask a couple people at next call

JA: I volunteer

KF: I'm willing to look as well
... Mark?

MH: Yes

<scribe> ACTION: JA to and JA and MH to come up with inital LC comments 
on ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-165 - And JA and MH to come up with inital LC 
comments on ARIA [on Jim Allan - due 2009-04-02].

KF: Let's move rest to next week
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JA to and JA and MH to come up with inital LC comments on 
ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Formulate simplified version with alt still required 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: KF to communicate current alt opinion to CG [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: kford communicate current alt opinion to CG. [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: kford update CG on alt status [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 26 March 2009 18:05:54 UTC

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