W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > January to March 2009

User Agent Working Group Telecon - 12 Mar 2009

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:37 +0000
Message-Id: <20ABCC8A-468C-4043-A1E8-2916A1A9C33C@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html

IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-irc

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: items to http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to ping Gregory and David on PF about Aria issues  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at breaking up "element", "element  
type" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JS apply new definition of Audio to glossary [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to delete 'alert' from glossary and document, add/ 
substitute 'notify' in glossary and document. use resolved defintion  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action03]

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

12 Mar 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Allan_James, Harper_Simon, Spellman_Jeanne, Ford_Kelly, Richards_Jan,  
Hakkinen_Mark
Regrets
Swan_Henny, Alan_Cantor
Chair
Allan_James
Scribe
sharper
Contents

Topics
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
Draft Status
telecom next week (17 March)?
Review WAI-ALT attribute proposal (HTML5) - tentative
Can we commit to attend TPAC in Santa Clara California Nov 2-6, 2009
CSUN Presentation discussion
Survey Results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/
Summary of Action Items




<trackbot> Date: 12 March 2009
<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 12 Mar 2009
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?

<KFord> zakim who's here
web: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/
attendance: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080822/
<scribe> ACTION: items to http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/ 
open [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - items
current-draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/
<jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/
Draft Status

JS: Draft has been published, and cam out at 14:17 EST yesterday.
JA: Comments by April 22nd - post CSUN
telecom next week (17 March)?

RESOLUTION: No meeting on the 17th March as it's CSUN
Review WAI-ALT attribute proposal (HTML5) - tentative

JR: People still want to talk about it.
JS: Concurs
... trying to build consensus - so when we go to HTML5 it will be a  
united front - otherwise there may be problems.
JR: we need to avoid disputs
KF: JR and you summarise, then we can talk
JR: General Resolutions giving background (Reads Text)
... photo site as an example can use alt to put label 5 of 200 - but  
not good for accessible usage and authors should look at WCAG 2 for  
accessibility.
... The draft then defines 'Image validity' - all the points that  
must be met to mean the image is valid (in the context of  
accessibility).
JA: long text alternatives - no longdef - can be depricated as  
describedby will cover this.
MH: describedby will be pointed to a link.
JA: role = presentation is equivalent to alt=""
MH: did anyone suggest role be required
JR: was some discussion but as there are only 2 options no thought  
necessary
MH: does the term 'presentation' jar with anyone as it is so open to  
interpretation and misuse.
KF: JR what's your view
... what if things are marked as they should not be - should user  
agents be able to see this
JR: UA supposed to support ARIA role = presentation (don't add to dom).
KF: some assistive technology corrects incorrect things, is this  
possible with this role?
... alt="" gives access but makes a statement - role = presentation  
cuts access as it is not in the dom - therefore no shot at this.
JR: I agree - comes down to the trust issue
JA: if author gets it wrong - no access to src?
JR: this can be placed anywhere and there dom is not modified.
<AllanJ> SH: worrying that things fall out of the DOM
KF: Internal mail to pf working group - can we get greater detail
<AllanJ> ...conflicts with accessibility and UA to repair
MH: worrying how things could drop out of the accessibility feature.
... seems to be a backward step
<JR> Here's a link http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-20090224/ 
#presentation
JA: should always be in the dom - but can be ignored
<AllanJ> concerns:
<AllanJ> 1. role=presentation - misuse or abuse of that role
<AllanJ> want role=image to convey this is content, but no alt yet  
and UA should look for fall back content
<AllanJ> JR: alt is required in HTML4, one purpose is for author  
education
<AllanJ> ...forces author to use alt (properly or not)...trust
<AllanJ> MH: will have validation error if alt="" with no  
role=presentation
<AllanJ> KF: what is UA fall back for role=presentation
KF: this makes accessibility harder
JR: respect the opinion, may need to take it back
... How will people behave - we just don't no too many factors...
<AllanJ> SH: ok with @alt, issue with role=presentation
<AllanJ> ...does UA need to make a requirement to cover "The user  
agent MAY choose not to present all structural aspects of the element  
being repurposed. " from http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai- 
aria-20090224/#presentation
<AllanJ> JR: +1
<AllanJ> ...should appear in the dom
SH: +1
<AllanJ> JA: should be in DOM by default, user has option to opt-out
<AllanJ> JR: UA needs a setting
sh: +1
KFord: css concept of generated content - not supposed to be in the  
dom either.
<AllanJ> JA: is it covered by 2.1.2 2.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value,  
Description: For all user interface components including the user  
interface and rendered content, make available the name, role, state,  
value, and description via an accessibility platform architecture.  
(Level A)
<AllanJ> ACTION: JA to ping Gregory and David on PF about Aria issues  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Ping Gregory and David on PF about  
Aria issues [on Jim Allan - due 2009-03-19].
RESOLUTION: await KFords comments back from his PF contact - we have  
time before their 'call', and contact Gregory and David also on PF.  
THIS NEEDS REVISITING - KEEP ON AGENDA.
<JR> JR could join by phone - chance I could attend in person but not  
sure how good
Can we commit to attend TPAC in Santa Clara California Nov 2-6, 2009

JA: when do we need to commit?
JS: Not sure, maybe restructuring - better to say no and then go for  
it at a later date
KFord: thinks we say no
JA: do this as a No, initially.
RESOLUTION: No to meeting at TPAC in Santa Clara California Nov 2-6,  
2009.
CSUN Presentation discussion

JA: JS and I are still thrashing this. Currently looking at  
presenting it as: things we do, issues with browsers, things we're  
trying to fix, illustrated with demos, examples etc. Then ask people  
to comment on the draft.
JS: Know of people attending - can you brief them that the  
presentation will occur on Saturday.
Survey Results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/

<KFord> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IG/#mailinglist
<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/results#xq5
Glossary Proposal - alert
JA: 3 accept, 2 changes, 1 neutral
Proposed delete 'alert' use "Notify": User Agents may notify users of  
events or status changes through the use of a message displayed  
within content, within the framework of the User Agent user interface  
(e.g., status bar), or through a pop-up window generated from the  
content or from the User Agent user interface. Notifications may be  
passive and not require user acknowledgment, or they may be presented  
in the form of a prompt requesting a user response (e.g.,
<AllanJ> proposed rewording: To make the user aware of events or  
status changes. Notifications can occur within the user agent user  
interface (e.g., status bar) or within the content display.  
Notifications may be passive and not require user acknowledgment, or  
they may be presented in the form of a prompt requesting a user  
response (e.g., a confirmation dialog).
<AllanJ> +1
+1
RESOLUTION: New rewording: To make the user aware of events or status  
changes. Notifications can occur within the user agent user interface  
(e.g., status bar) or within the content display. Notifications may  
be passive and not require user acknowledgment, or they may be  
presented in the form of a prompt requesting a user response (e.g., a  
confirmation dialog).
<AllanJ> ACTION: JS to delete 'alert' from glossary and document, add/ 
substitute 'notify' in glossary and document. use resolved defintion  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Delete 'alert' from glossary and  
document, add/substitute 'notify' in glossary and document. use  
resolved defintion [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-03-19].
Glossary Proposal - audio
Proposed audio: The technology of sound reproduction. Audio can be  
created synthetically (including speech synthesis), streamed from a  
live source (such as a radio broadcast), or recorded from real world  
sounds.
<KFord> +1 to what mH said.
accept 4 / discuss 1 / neutral 1
RESOLUTION: audio: The technology of sound reproduction. Audio can be  
created synthetically (including speech synthesis), streamed from a  
live source (such as a radio broadcast), or recorded from real world  
sounds.
<AllanJ> ACTION: JS apply new definition of Audio to glossary  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Apply new definition of Audio to  
glossary [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-03-19].
Proposed element, element type: A pair of tags and their content, or  
an "empty" tag - one that requires no closing tag or content (used in  
the same sense as in HTML and XML) [adapted from ATAG 2.0]
accept 4 / change 1 / discuss 2 / neutral 1
JR: should we break apart into 2 types?
JA: need to break up element and element type:
<JR> ACTION: JR to Look at breaking up "element", "element  
type" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Look at breaking up \"element\",  
\"element type\" [on Jan Richards - due 2009-03-19].
RESOLUTION: Further analysis required.
rsagent, draft minutes
Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: items to http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to ping Gregory and David on PF about Aria issues  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at breaking up "element", "element  
type" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JS apply new definition of Audio to glossary [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to delete 'alert' from glossary and document, add/ 
substitute 'notify' in glossary and document. use resolved defintion  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-ua-minutes.html#action03]

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 12 March 2009 18:38:14 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 14:49:37 UTC