- From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:45:59 +0000
- To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-irc Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/ Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at "application" in the defn of platform accessibility architecture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05- ua-minutes.html#action08] [NEW] ACTION: JR to Write-up a clarification of WHICH web apps are user agents and which are not. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action01] [NEW] ACTION: JS to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action10] [NEW] ACTION: JS to research whether the draft charter dates can be updated at this time. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua- minutes.html#action06] [NEW] ACTION: JS to update glossary with new definition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action07] [NEW] ACTION: kelly to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http:// www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action05] [NEW] ACTION: kf, mh to think about guideline to capture user agents embeded in desktop applications [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action02] [NEW] ACTION: kford to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http:// www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action04] [NEW] ACTION: kford,mht to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action03] [NEW] ACTION: to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action09] - DRAFT - User Agent Working Group Telecon - 05 Feb 2009 05 Feb 2009 See also: IRC log Attendees Present Allan_James, Harper_Simon, Hakkinen_Mark, Spellman_Jeanne, Ford_Kelly, Swan_Henny, Richards_Jan Regrets Alan, Brewer_Judy Chair Jim_Allan Scribe Harper_Simon Contents Topics Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? New Member (introductions all around) WD Publication status ATIA report on UAAG20 poster session Glossary Review First 20 Items - Draft Charter review http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/ draft_uawg_charter_20mar08.html ATIA report on UAAG20 poster session Glossary Review First 20 Items - Summary of Action Items <AllanJ> title: UAWG telecon <AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JanMar/ att-0009/UAAG_glossary_review.doc <scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon <scribe> ScribeNick: sharper JA: Introduces new member HS (Opera Web Evangelist) HS: Introductions and background All: Round table Introductions Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? New Member (introductions all around) WD Publication status JS: Draft - currently on hold for chartering and WG meetings per year for UAWG. Once complete we can then publish this draft. ... Hoping for something soon. ATIA report on UAAG20 poster session JA: JS did a poster session at ATIA and has comments. JS: @ posters - one on WAI and Guidelines and screen-shot of Easy YouTube Browser ... Generated most discussion as concerned that we where including Web Applications as User Agents. ... feeling was covered by WCAG and was confusion that we required developers to conform to 2 sets of guidelines ... Concern re - EU that thsi would quickly become a standard ... W-Applications are just widgets and have to conform to WCAG and ARIA and now UAWG ack KF: What do people think about this - what are our reactions? JR: Not going to be to much of a big deal in reality - we already point to WCAG for a big chunk of this - things after this are really just to do with broswer specific stuff - in a browser setting. MH: Sorted in Public comment KF: Our guidelines are the superset of the basics that would be needed, for future proofing. ... need some good arguments on this JA: with PF dodged a bullet using ARIA - may not be so lucky next time - developers doing so so much with JavaScript that there may be problems in the future. <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/People/jeanne/ATIA2009/UAAG-final-letter.pdf KF: UAAG 1 based on desktop - strides on eliminating the bias - desktop is still primary - but other devices must be included - need to make sure that our guidelines are not so biased. JS: Like to take the time to re read for modularity - such that if a section applies to a W-Application or does the entire document applies - must be careful on this. JA: in Conformance claim? JS: Guidelines to make sure that (in application notes) we have the right boundaries around the user agent types. MH: Follow up on KF - most innovation on touch screen devices etc. need to look at the document now to see this. <AllanJ> boundary between (specific guidelines) for web-applications as browser and browser-application <KFord> SHarper: Talking about other browsing platforms like that used by phones from Google. <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/People/jeanne/ATIA2009/WAI-Poster.png <KFord> Sharper: Also talking about json, javascript object notation. <KFord> JR: +1 to kford's comments. Reason why we need to declare any kind of boundary is that in the end we are talking about agents where the contet is web content. <AllanJ> JR: +1 to KF comment about wide variety of platforms, tools, etc. <JR> ackJR KF: Android technology could be the greater concern, JSON is more about the JS technology as it is about displaying information. <AllanJ> SH: JSON covered by ARIA? KF: JSON more about the exchange as opposed to the display so would not effect this - as WCAG / UAAG / ARIA would still cover this. <AllanJ> KF: more about background (lower-level) data transfer MH: Android browser based on WebKit and more like chrome ... Times Article - TV Raman - touch screen technology working on user agents - ideas on this? <KFord> JSON definition/description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Json <JR> So JSON is just a format RESOLUTION: Still resolved to address Web Applications in the UAAG Guidelines as they are part of the browser. RESOLUTION: JA - Two sets of guidelines, these are for things that are for applications and another set are the Web Applications side (this is a possibility - re JS characterisations) in maybe a 2-tiered way. <KFord> TV Raman article from MY Times - http://www.nytimes.com/ 2009/01/04/business/04blind.html <KFord> +1 <JR> ACTION: JR to Write-up a clarification of WHICH web apps are user agents and which are not. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Write-up a clarification of WHICH web apps are user agents and which are not. [on Jan Richards - due 2009-02-12]. JR: Could you say when content is wrapped in content then it is just content - but when you transform something you're a user agent. ISSUE: Future Formats - do we need to investigate these? <trackbot> Created ISSUE-31 - Future Formats - do we need to investigate these? ; please complete additional details at http:// www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/31/edit . MH: Pulling local database information (not Web) and wrapping in html but not web content JR: is dataformat a web content format? HTML is ARIA is / word is not say MH: pulling an XML doc into an XSLT system KF: common for desktop applications - will use any web tech that is on the platform as it is easy to wrap and use. Problem, maybe getting AT to switch between these applications - is this covered - should it be? Also, problem getting out of the environment. ... Do we need a guideline saying - you've got to play nice with your neighbours. JA: In new 508, did away with application guidelines and web guidelines - now they are just one. ... Seems like the compound document issues - (platform on a platform on a platform) <JR> acl AllanJ <KFord> ACTION: kf, mh to think about guideline to capture user agents embeded in desktop applications [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action02] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kf, JR: Plugins are user agents embeded in a desktop application <KFord> ACTION: kford,mht to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action03] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford,mht <mth> mth <AllanJ> ACTION: kford to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action04] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford <AllanJ> ACTION: kelly to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action05] <trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [on Kelly Ford - due 2009-02-12]. Glossary Review First 20 Items - Draft Charter review http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/ draft_uawg_charter_20mar08.html <AllanJ> JA: Last call June 09 atainable? <AllanJ> JS: need video, understanding doc, and couple of other things. KFord: Need more comments on the draft <AllanJ> KF: June seems ambitious KF: August / Sept seems more realistic JA: we can have more than one last call JR: don't want to plan many LC - means you haven't done your job ... Now have a Stabilisation Draft - then after this LC ... need time for this ... 9 months from now to LC through SD <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about the importance of presenting and talking about the publications. JS: Need to present and publicise the UAWG - maybe need to talk about this at conferences etc. Look at conference that you are attending for opportunities to promote this. HS: Can do this via twitter, blogging, and youtube. <AllanJ> SHarper: what about WWW conference, I'll be going <AllanJ> HS: I will be there also <jeanne> ACTION: JS to research whether the draft charter dates can be updated at this time. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua- minutes.html#action06] <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Research whether the draft charter dates can be updated at this time. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-12]. ATIA report on UAAG20 poster session Glossary Review First 20 Items - <AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JanMar/ att-0009/UAAG_glossary_review.doc <AllanJ> To execute the behaviour(s) associated with an enabled element rendered content or component of the user agent user interface. <JR> To execute the behaviour(s) associated with an enabled element in the rendered content or component of the user agent user interface. RESOLUTION: Activate - To execute the behaviour(s) associated with an enabled element in the rendered content or component of the user agent user interface. <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update glossary with new definition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action07] <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Update glossary with new definition [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-12]. <AllanJ> A programmatic interface that is specifically engineered to provide communication between mainstream applications and assistive technologies (e.g., MSAA and IAccessible2 for Windows applications, AXAPI for MacOSX applications, Gnome Accessibility Toolkit API for Gnome applications, Java Access for Java applications, etc.). On some platforms it may be conventional to enhance communication... <AllanJ> ...further by implementing a DOM. MH: why 'mainstream' JR: Just to differentiate between AT etc ... Can dig the ATAG definition for Mainstream <JR> From ATAG 2.0: mainstream applications <JR> Software applications for which augmenting accessibility is secondary to some other purpose (as opposed to assistive technology where it is the primary purpose). Mainstream technologies may include direct accessibility features. <AllanJ> KF: should list UIautomation in examples KF: what are we trying to get with the last sentence? JR: attempt to reconcile that DOMs are important in some cases - compromise language. JA: can more the last sentence to the DOM / or objections to stay where it is (KF)? <AllanJ> KF: -1 mainstream <JR> WCAG 2.0: hardware and/or software that acts as a user agent, or along with a mainstream user agent, to provide functionality to meet the requirements of users with disabilities that go beyond those offered by mainstream user agents <AllanJ> JS: -1 mainstream, add another cognitive layer <mth> -1 mainstream <AllanJ> A programmatic interface that is specifically engineered to provide communication between applications and assistive technologies (e.g., MSAA, UI Automation, and IAccessible2 for Windows applications, AXAPI for MacOSX applications, Gnome Accessibility Toolkit API for Gnome applications, Java Access for Java applications, etc.). On some platforms it may be conventional to enhance communication furt <AllanJ> her by implementing a DOM. JR: to take back ro ATAG - what should we use on a general basis - application / software ? <KFord> Confirming UI Automation is as I indicated UI Automation http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/bb892133.aspx JA: application - we've been using this throughout ... Leave at application JR: Applications OK for now RESOLUTION: JR will look at this over the next week - postponed to next meeting Platform Accessibility Architecture - A programmatic interface that is specifically engineered to provide communication between applications and assistive technologies (e.g., MSAA, UI Automation, and IAccessible2 for Windows applications, AXAPI for MacOSX applications, Gnome Accessibility Toolkit API for Gnome applications, Java Access for Java applications, etc.). On some platforms it may be conventional to enhance communication further by implementing a DOM. <JR> ACTION: JR to Look at "application" in the defn of platform accessibility architecture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05- ua-minutes.html#action08] <trackbot> Created ACTION-123 - Look at \"application\" in the defn of platform accessibility architecture [on Jan Richards - due 2009-02-12]. <jeanne> ACTION: to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action09] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to <jeanne> ACTION: JS to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action10] <trackbot> Created ACTION-124 - Put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-12]. Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at "application" in the defn of platform accessibility architecture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05- ua-minutes.html#action08] [NEW] ACTION: JR to Write-up a clarification of WHICH web apps are user agents and which are not. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action01] [NEW] ACTION: JS to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action10] [NEW] ACTION: JS to research whether the draft charter dates can be updated at this time. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua- minutes.html#action06] [NEW] ACTION: JS to update glossary with new definition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action07] [NEW] ACTION: kelly to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http:// www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action05] [NEW] ACTION: kf, mh to think about guideline to capture user agents embeded in desktop applications [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action02] [NEW] ACTION: kford to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly (includes MTH). [recorded in http:// www.w3.org/2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action04] [NEW] ACTION: kford,mht to think about guideline around ensuring embedded user agents work correctly. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action03] [NEW] ACTION: to put the revised definition of platform accessibility architecture into next week's survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 2009/02/05-ua-minutes.html#action09] [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 5 February 2009 19:46:37 UTC