- From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:49:19 +0100
- To: WAI-UA list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html
IRC LOG: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-irc
Full Conference Minutes:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Teleconference for 24 July 2008
24 Jul 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/
0046.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
James_Allan, Simon_Harper, Jeanne_Spellman, Kelly, Ford,
Judy, Brewer, Alan, Cantor
Regrets
Mark_Hakkinen, Gregory_Rosmaita, Jan, Richards
Chair
Judy Brewer & Jim Allan
Scribe
Simon Harper
Contents
* [4]Topics
* [5]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
scribe Simon Harper
<scribe> scribe: Simon Harper
<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
<AllanJ> [6]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results
[6] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results
JB: Meetings to continue through July and August 2008
<Alan> Hello...
JB: Results available at
[7]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results
... How close to Heartbeat 1
... Towards end of August 2008
[7] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results
<Judy> ACTION: jb check on the pending question about timing of next
publication vs timing of charter review for rechartering obligation
[recorded in
[8]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]
JA: W3C Process - WG must put a new working draft out every 3 months
to make sure the group is still working - means not working in the
dark
... first Draft at CSUN in March 2008
JB: Plan for the end of August for the next draft.
RESOLUTION: Group aims for the end of August to publish next draft.
<AllanJ> [9]http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm
[9] http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm
JA: Did everyone see
[10]http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm
[10] http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm
JS: Listed principles and success criteria, went through and refined
them and assigned a level now a much more focused list. Final
results then split into levels. Then we have a list of everything
removed (and more).
JA: Some of the removed ones (say 3rd) - have target destinations
(just a feeling) - no specific place to drop it in.
JS: Concerned these may be lost.
<scribe> ACTION: JA: Place these possible lost items into the
'correct' locations. [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<AllanJ> [12]http://www.w3.org/tr/uaag20
[12] http://www.w3.org/tr/uaag20
JB: Any of the items flagged with 'SHOULD' need to be in a new list
/ location.
Moving through Guideline 4.1 Ensure full keyboard access
JA: Sequential keyboard commands (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to
navigate between every UI operable control and interactive element
in the rendered content. Level A
NOTE: These follow conventions, see 1.1
JA: Like hitting alt and then arrow keys to move through
JB: Maybe good as a test of these to read it out and see if there
are any questions - may miss understanding, if concentrating on
interpretation.
AC: Question - did we agree keyboard commands was a code-word /
short hand for interaction by keyboard.
JS: I think so - do you have concerns.
AC: possible - lets wait - may need a small change later.
... Doesn't see tab etc as a command as opposed to a keypress
JS: Agree
JB: Agree
KF: OK to replace terminology
ALL: Good change.
JB UI better than chrome but what is 'UI operable control and
interactive element'
JA: Phrase-ology to indicate they must be operable - no tabbing
through greyed out items on a menu.
AC: Windows menus now - can navigate to a greyed out item - is a
good thing as the menu isn't growing and shortening in length.
Maintains consistent behaviour - suggest 'every control' - not
operable control
JB: Very different things
JA: Need to keep software and content separate.
... Lets agree on AC point and remove operable - objects?
KF: Default behaviour for inactive controls can't tab to them always
- menus you can - dialogues you can't.
JB: Is one way to look at this - this is a level A requirement -
identify it as every operable control - at this level, does that
help?
KF: Akin to the philosophy used on Tuesday. Add a second one for AA
to remove the operable - also want to follow OS conventions -
Advocate leaving it as is, if we want to tab to all make this a
level 2 option?
AC: struggling with this...
<AllanJ> SH: say: unless overridden by operating system convetion
KF: Gives an out, by adding confusion.
JA: OK for changes including AC changes wording just 'Key presses'
<AllanJ> Key presses (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to navigate
between every UI operable control, and interactive element in the
rendered content.
<jeanne> Key presses (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to navigate
between every UI operable control, and between every interactive
element in the rendered content.
JB: Objections... None.
Caret browse and select can be used to navigate between characters
in rendered text content (incremental - character, word, line,
element, all).
AC: What is it? Allows keyboard navigation to all content that you a
browsing.
A Possible Definition:
The term caret is used in graphical user interface terminology where
it means a text insertion point indicator, frequently represented by
a blinking vertical bar. In this context, it may be used
interchangeably with the word cursor, although the latter term is
often reserved for a mouse pointer.
JS: Any text in the rendered context...
AC refinement - break into 2: navigation and select?
<jeanne> Any text in the rendered content can be navigated and/or
selected using the keyboard.
AC: Any text or picture:
JS: Any element? Object?
JA: Some elements could be a problem - re flash
<jeanne> Text in the rendered content can be navigated and/or
selected using the keyboard.
KF: That is not beyond user agents control.
JB: does this gives us the meaning we think it does
AC: need some generic phrase to capture this
<AllanJ> SH: don't we really mean CUT/PASTE
<AllanJ> SH: replace TEXT with RENDERED CONTENT
<AllanJ> JS: text is too important., Rendered content does't mean
character, etc.
<AllanJ> SH: put the parenthetical back in (incremental ...)
<jeanne> Rendered content (character, word, line, image, element,
all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard.
<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph,
image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the
keyboard.
KF: Too complicated, paragraph selection is above and beyond - what
you want is to select as implemented in the OS - see 1.1
JA: Do we really need to say this on everyone?
<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph,
image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the
keyboard. See 1.1
JB: should it be see guideline 1.1 or a full phrase re OS
conventions?
JS: last
KF: none - let's not repeat ourselves.
... should say at the beginning (in one spot) which?
<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph,
image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the
keyboard consistent with operating system conventions.
<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph,
image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the
keyboard (consistent with operating system conventions).
JB: Tend to want to move on right now -
<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g. by character, word, line, paragraph,
image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the
keyboard (consistent with operating system conventions).
<scribe> ACTION: KFord Clarify - Rendered content (e.g. by
character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be
navigated and/or selected using the keyboard (consistent with
operating system conventions). [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]
No keyboard trap. The user agent provides at least one hot key to
restore keyboard focus to a known location.
AC: known location - ambiguous - if long page, if only way to
restore focus is (alt+D) could be a problem.
JB: Other provisions are sentences to introduce the point - should
be consistent - frame the checkpoint - shorthand to the group - not
suitable for general.
JA: remove No keyboard trap is OK?
JB: Still not right?
JA: Any developers will understand keyboard trap?
KF: No
... Do we need to get this down to letter perfect level?
JB: no
... checking inadvertant interpretations - not letter perfect
JA: Issue Kelly?
KF: No
JB: looks sloppy compared to others
AC: agree
JA: Anyone does not know?
<jeanne> The user agent provides at least one keyboard command to
restore keyboard focus to a default location.
JA: Escape is critical
<jeanne> The user agent provides at least one prominent keyboard
command (e.g. escape key) to move keyboard focus to a default
location.
JB: not obscure hot key - what about escape?
<scribe> ACTION: Allanj Clarify- The user agent provides at least
one prominent keyboard command (e.g. escape key) to move keyboard
focus to a default location. [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action04]
KF: don't want to see escape key - not appropriate
Direct keyboard commands can be used to activate the following
important functions
JA: the List is already mentioned elsewhere.
... this just says you have to have a keyboard control for the list
(defined elsewhere)
JB: Maybe forgo the list, thoughts?
AC: should we use keyboard presses as opposed to commands
JA: term needed for browser control
JS: would like to get away from sequential and direct
AC: key-presses would get you the entire list - except maybe volume
control?
<jeanne> Key press can be used to activate the following important
functions (list) Level A
AC: lets go to 5 and return to 4 at the end of the telecon
User has the option to configure the keyboard processing order (UI,
extensions, recognized content (Access key, AT), unrecognized
content)
JB: all in () could be interpreted differently by different people -
can we clarify?
... is it intended to be a flat list?
JA: yes
... should start on 4 next week
... thrash wording next week as opposed to section review?
... Regarding (Remove - should be in...) items
JB: address A.4 A.5 and AA.1 next week
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Allanj Clarify- The user agent provides at least one
prominent keyboard command (e.g. escape key) to move keyboard focus
to a default location. [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JA: Place these possible lost items into the 'correct'
locations. [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jb check on the pending question about timing of next
publication vs timing of charter review for rechartering obligation
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: KFord Clarify - Rendered content (e.g. by character,
word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or
selected using the keyboard (consistent with operating system
conventions). [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version 1.133
([20]CVS log)
$Date: 2008/07/24 19:36:07 $
_________________________________________________________
[19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Present: James_Allan Simon_Harper Jeanne_Spellman Kelly Ford Judy Brewe
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Regrets: Mark_Hakkinen Gregory_Rosmaita Jan Richards
Agenda: [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0
046.html
Got date from IRC log name: 24 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: allanj ja jb kford
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/
0046.html
[23] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html
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[24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 24 July 2008 19:49:56 UTC