- From: Jan Richards <jan.richards@utoronto.ca>
- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:05:26 -0400
- To: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
- CC: "'WAI-ua'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Hi David, What would be useful is the types of keyboard commands provided in the MacOS and any MacOS specific terminology that might be used. Cheers, Jan David Poehlman wrote: > Not sure what you are after with regard to apple, but there's lots of > documentation on their web. > > How can I help? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jan Richards" <jan.richards@utoronto.ca> > To: "'WAI-ua'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org> > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:10 PM > Subject: Minutes for User Agent Teleconference for March 27 2008 > > > > Minutes: > http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-ua-minutes.html > > Action Items: > > ACTION: Gregory to Review Linux Foundation/Open Accessibility documents > for terminology > > ACTION: jb contact d michael & mb janes abt apple rep on discussion of > keyboard interaction terminology, feasibility etc > > ACTION: SH to Look up MS keyboard actions in MSDN. > > > Full text: > > Attendees > Present > KFord, Allanj, Jan, Judy, Cantor, Gregory_Rosmaita, SeanH > Regrets > Chair > Jim Allan > Scribe > Jan > Contents > Topics > 1. Keyboard Access > Summary of Action Items > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > <scribe> Scribe: Jan > > 370 not 270 > > JA: We have a bunch of people on the call > > All: Introductions... > > SH: Is officially now the alternate for this group... > ... Accessibility business group > > GR: Introduces self > > JB: Does WAI stuff > ... Will be UAWG co-chair 3-6 months > > AC: Hoping to be invited expert on keyboard access > > JB: Group is in process of developing new charter > ... By next meeting it will be public to group > ... Group needs to be rechartered for rec track work for uaag2 > > JA: Next wee, I'll give regrets > > JB: Me too > > JA: will work it out online > ... Today we have invited guests for keyboard access > ... Access to keyboard interface of browser itself and content for users > NOT using AT > ... Part of discoverable etc. > > 1. Keyboard Access > JA: Current version in public WD: > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UAAG20-20080312/ > ... THen also two links as we got more into this: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0053.html > > JA: There are lots of nuances > ... So this is not programmatic determinable... > ... It's about ability to see and ineefficiently use > > JB: Some background...lots of talk in TEITAC 508 group over past 4-6 weeks > ... In the end, there seemed to be 3 distinct aspects... > ... 1. Programmatic access via AT > ... SH might have concerns about that one so good to talk about > ... 2. Also peripheral issue how keyboard shortcuts get documented- at > end of TEITAC we said available in "electronic documentation" > ... Looks like would have been likely concenssu > ... 3. What kinds of shortcuts can be indicated > ... This was much trickier to figure out welll > ... I will be commenting that we didn't get close enough to wording on this > ... So hoping to get good solutions on this in UAAG2 and then maybe > suggesting wording back to TEITAC committee > > AC: Good preamblr > > JA: So... > > JB: Should we look at the draft? > > JA: OK > > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UAAG20-20080312/#principle-operable > > Guideline 4.1 > > SH: Reasonable intro of TEITAC discussion > > <AllanJ> discussion emails a) > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html > b)http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0053.html > > SH: In summary my issues are about scoping > > JR: Clarifies timeline on those emails > > GR: Just wanted to ask about electronic documentation > ... Makes me think online documentation > > JB: More than that...and other individual said could be on CDROM > ... I'm ok as long as it is accessible electonically.... > ... Not immediate access issue > > GR: OK because if online...should be locally cached when refreshed > > <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask on JB's point 2 if "electronic" means > "online" and if so, shouldn't caching of such documents locally be a > requirement? > > AC: Reading over principal 4.... > ... Some comments ...when I look at 4... > ... Ensure full keyboard access is too vague > ... So can do all be keyboard... > ... Also efficiency is vital > ... Then that they all be discoverable > ... Then reading note.... > ... Should be careful about term "keyboard shortcuts" > ... Should be thinking about general techniques ... > ... Not about memorizing shortcuts > ... More like conveying keyboard access, rather than shortcuts which is > specific mechanism > > JA: Thanks > ... The guideline is short mnemonic thing... > ... Meat of it is the success criteria > ... @@'s are notes to ourselves > > JB: Comment about termininology... > ... Very useful to get better shorthand for discussing these things > ... In TEITAC often got tripped up by saying "kyeaboard shortcuts" > ... Generally don't like loits of specialized jargon but maybe useful here. > ... Looking again.... > ... Language you were wondering about is what's in our note... > > SH: Issue/question on 4.1.1.... > ... You have "operate all of the functions included in the user > interface"... > ... IN WCAG, TEITAC...all the functions that can be gotten at in the > user interface,,,, > ... Not necessirliy clear > > JR: Points out "This applies to at least one mechanism per "browsing > outcome"@@DEFINE@@, allowing non-keyboard accessible mechanisms to > remain available (e.g., providing resizing with mouse-"handles" and with > keystrokes).@@" > ... Agreed that it might not be clear > > JA: Some things in 4.1....not necassirly things we have issues with... > ... Looking at > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html > > AC: Anything about visual indicators > > NOTE: Keyboard shortcut probably needs a definition that excludes > > keyboard controls for sequential navigation (arrow keys, ENTER, TAB, etc.) > > SH: In MS we have accelerator key...and then we have shortcut keys > ... Accelerator key moves you faster to visible things...shortcut keys > go to hiddent things..then there are keys to drive mouse etc > > JB: I think we really need to collect relevant vocab > > JR: Does someone have this already? > > SH: MSDN might have something? > > AC: Think it's really important to get crisp defintions > ... All tend to blend together > > JA: Gregory, with your linux work...if you could find terminilogy would > be useful > > KF: MacOS has same concepts, I'll have to go look > > GR: Tried to get Apple into keyboard group > > <scribe> ACTION: SH to Look up MS keyboard actions in MSDN. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-ua-minutes.html#action01] > > <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory to Review Linux Foundation/Open Accessibility > documents for terminology [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-ua-minutes.html#action02] > > <judy> ACTION: jb contact d michael & mb janes abt apple rep on > discussion of keyboard interaction terminology, feasibility etc > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-ua-minutes.html#action03] > > GR: Just want to tell people that they can check minutes on mailing list > archives > > <KFord> One example of MSDN on keyboards is > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms645526.aspx > > GR: Also gives "minutes" URL > > JA: Back to message... > > (1) Visual Keyboard Shortcut Indicator ("Chrome"): Provide a user > > setting in which currently visible user interface "chrome" components > > visually indicated their keyboard shortcuts, IF ANY (e.g., with > > accesskey letters underlined). > > AC: So refers specifically to what keys are > ... In FF, tabs have no indications > > SH: So this one brings out issue clearly... > ... In windows...press Alt... > ... Brings up mode...Alt-F....moves focus but doesn't activate...but ctrl S > > KF: But actually those actually do do something.... > > SH: So yes distinguishing functionality versus operating the UI > > JB: So if I hit alt key I get ....underlines first letter.... > ... Then can visually scan.... > ... But everything has visual indicator.... > ... Good for someone with limited hand use... > > KF: Alt just activates menu bar > > <AllanJ> JR: Alt shifts focus to menu bar, Alt-F, O activates 'open' > > <AllanJ> ... some keys move focus, others activate a control > > SH: Yes...so only talking about indicators you can see > > JB: One thing I worry about is "sequential" > > SH: Think this is reasonable > ... Thinks "IF ANY" is important...some items don't have any direct > keyboard shortcuts > > AC: By convention when on menu....up and down arrow keys provide a way > to navigate in direction of arrow keys > > SH: Nothing in UI that makes you know that arrows do something > ... Implicit > > JA: In windows when I do an alt-F... > ... There are other actionable keys....O....to Open > ... Think that's what JB is getting at > > SH: IN IE , "favourites" list is dynamic so don't have accelerators > > AC: But can use alphabetical keys > > JA: Nuance there we need to try and capture > ... Tool may provide efficient nav...but without indicator... > > GR: You would also want to capture ability for user to resort > > eg. to be able to alphabetize > > KF: Yes can sort favourites but not allowed to sort items in other menus > > JB: I don't really use IE...but... > ... When I get to bookmark menu... > ... I'm looking for tools tha tlet me organize, but also I'm more > tolerant of sequential access since I "caused the mess" maybe? > > GR: When using windows in classic mode, can have personalized > menus...can also hide infrequentally used things > > In some other tools can move things around in menus > > AC: In office products it was easy to customize menus > ... Grouping etc. > ... Doing software customization ... avbility to remove unused items is > very important > > <oedipus> amen (plus 1) > > SH: THere is still lots of customization in Office2007 > > JB: Higly discoverable customization important > > JA: Need to jump in... > ... Even though Judy and I won't be here next week...discussion should > continue next week > > KF: Discussion seems to have veered... > ... Are we saying I should be able to specify chrome elements and layout > of them? > > GR: Yes > > AC: Yes > ... Logical end of fully customizable. > > JR: Can chair next week. > > JA: Very productive thanks > > JB: Thanks > > GR: Everything so interrelated > > > > Jim Allan wrote: >> User Agent Teleconference for March 28 2008 >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Chair: Jim Allan >> Date: Thursday, March 28 2008 >> Time: 2:00-3:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (19:00-20:00 UTC/GMT) >> Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use >> 44-117-270-6152 >> IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua. >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Regrets: >> >> Agenda: >> >> 0. Regrets, agenda requests, or comments to the list >> >> 1. Keyboard Access - >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UAAG20-20080312/ >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0053.html >> >> >> Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist >> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired >> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756 >> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/ >>>>> Share to Win! <<< >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Jan Richards, M.Sc. User Interface Design Specialist Adaptive Technology Resource Centre (ATRC) Faculty of Information Studies University of Toronto Email: jan.richards@utoronto.ca Web: http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca Phone: 416-946-7060 Fax: 416-971-2896
Received on Friday, 28 March 2008 13:05:01 UTC