- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:21:57 +0000
- To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
LEGEND FOR SNIPPET: * Steven is Steven Pemberton of CWI/W3C * Roland is Roland Merrick, chair of the XHTML2 WG * Shane is Shane McCarron, editor of XHTML Role, Access, M12N, RDFa, etc. * Rich is Rich Schwerdtfeger * oedipus is GJR (obviously) <quote cite="http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-xhtml-minutes.html"> <Steven> In css, you say img[src] {content: attr(src)} <Steven> so in principle you can switch between displaying the image and the content <oedipus> GJR: that "principle" needs to be explicitly stated <Steven> (but the CSS doesn't give you control over @srctype) <Steven> In any case the alternate content is in the dom, so is available for use as necessary <oedipus> amen Steven: poping stack for a few levels, back to "longdesc". Roland: how we can style both? Steven: in CSS, content: means replacement with external resource. (Steven went to flipchart to argue) Roland: CSS cannot do fallback at failure. Steven: *[src]:error, you can invent pseudo-class in that case. ... We don't know it is allowed, but let's assume it allowed... ... *[src]:before ... {content: attr(src)} ... *[src]{display:none} ... body.nosrc *[src] {display:block} ... body.nosrc *[src]:before ... {content: ""} ... *[src]:error <oedipus> steven, will that {content: "foo";} make it into the DOM? currently, CSS-generated text isn't in the DOM and isn't accessible to assistive tech Steven described an error case with src="foo.xdiv" srctype="vide/xdiv" <oedipus> UAAG (user agent accessibility guidelines WG) is trying to address CSS- and script-generated text, UAAG2 has a proposed requirement that ALL text, no matter what its source, must be made available via the DOM or directly to an accessibility API (such as MSAA, IAccessible2, ATK/AT-SPI, etc. [administrivia clipped] <Steven> Gregory, wrt your content: question <oedipus> yeah <Steven> I didn't put any real content there <Steven> in one case it is the embedded image <Steven> in the other case, the embedded image is overwritten with 'nothing' (empty string) <Steven> the dom remains the same in both cases <Steven> (I think) <Steven> and the DOM contains the URL of the image, and the alternate content, both of which reside in the DOM without change <oedipus> do you think the UAAG2 req unreasonable? <Steven> and so is accessible to any software that wants to make use of it <oedipus> ok <Steven> I have no problem with the UAAG2 requirement <oedipus> that's certainly good to hear <Steven> In fact it is a pain when you copy a numbered list, and don't get the numbers in the copy buffer <oedipus> the tricky bit is wording it correctly <Steven> because of the generated content problem Rich: Guideline for browser for markup? <oedipus> if CSS is used to control list styling, one doesn't get that info from an assistive tech - it uses the "dumb" nesting default algorithm Shane: we provided default CSS for XHMTL2. <Steven> But for instance Gregory, XForms which also generates content, amongst other places via repeats talks of a shadow tree (or DOM) <Steven> so you have two DOMs <oedipus> that's the tricky bit UAAG is trying to deal with -- multiple DOMs Shane: Browser people complained "don't constrain browsers". <oedipus> browser people are always complaining -- just like their users!!! <oedipus> steven, your point about copying content with CSS-generated text is a mirror of the AT user's problem, only it is constant, not situational Shane: I have an action item to turn OWL into RDFa. ... at the end of role spec. <Steven> ack that Gregory <oedipus> rich, i'm not sure i understand your question -- UAAG guideline would be markup agnostic -- if something's writing to the visual palette, capture it in the DOM or expose it directly to an accessibility API is what UAAG is discussing </quote> ---------------------------------------------- Theory helps us to bear our ignorance of fact. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" ---------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ ----------------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 28 February 2008 17:22:11 UTC