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Minutes W3C User Agent Teleconference for 16 February 2006

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:13:51 -0600
To: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsb1.tsbvi.edu>, WAU-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Cc: Jan Richards <jan.richards@utoronto.ca>
Message-id: <HDEAKIPKOHBCMDILOOPNOEPMFAAB.jimallan@tsbvi.edu>


13:01] *** #ua: jallan RRSAgent Zakim @JR
[13:01] *** #ua was created on Thu Feb 16 12:57:20 2006.
[13:01] Zakim: + +1.877.625.aabb
[13:02] JR: Agenda+ Review techniques for 1.2 Activate event handlers (P1)
[13:02] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
[13:02] Zakim: +Jim_Allan
[13:02] JR: Agenda+ 3. Review Test Suite items for 1.2 Activate event
handlers (P1)
[13:02] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
[13:03] JR: Attendees from SUN today: Peter Korn, Will Walker, Dan Labrecque
[13:03] JR: Meeting: WAI UA
[13:03] *** WillieW has joined #ua.
[13:03] JR: Scribe: JR
[13:04] JR: Chair: jallan
[13:04] JR: Zakim, take up agendum 1
[13:04] Zakim: agendum 1. "AJAX - what is it? What are the accessibility
issues? What are the implications for UAAG?" taken up [from JR]
[13:04] Zakim: +Earl_Johnson
[13:06] JR: Possible regrets from Cathy Laws
[13:06] JR: JA: UA might develop document about how UAAG should relate to
[13:07] JR: JA: PF is looking at DHTML - which will relate to AJAX
[13:08] JR: EJ: AJAX is an approach ...- introduces same challenges as
[13:09] JR: DL: In SUN, AJAX being used to replace large junks of page -
prob for screen readers, etc.
[13:10] JR: JA: Prob. for DHTML as well - all comes back to things are
dynamically changes...how are users supposed to find out.
[13:10] JR: PK: User Agents will need to implement platform accessibility
[13:11] JR: PK: User agents would need to pick up annotations...
[13:12] JR: PK: Info from DHTML to UA to platform accessibility API to
Assistive tech.
[13:12] JR: PK: That seems to be appropriate place for UAAG to address this.
[13:13] JR: PK: Issue is that platform dependent issues come to forefront.
[13:14] JR: DL: In talking to Aaron from IBM, they seem to be identifying
various approaches (roles, etc.)
[13:14] *** korn has joined #ua.
[13:14] JR: DL: Aaron had info on which things are working already (Window
Eyes + Firefox)
[13:15] JR: DL: Approach: start focusing on stop gap places...
[13:15] JR: DL: Then there are the support issues...
[13:17] JR: PK: Thinks that in uaag there would be specific checkpoint
related to all of the DHTML abilities - then state that the platform API's
are the way to deal with them - then specific guidance plat-by-plat in the
[13:17] JR: JA: Yes hoping to do that in techniques.
[13:17] JR: JA: We do want to review new techs as they come out - if we find
a hole then we may have to open up uaag. If no hole, then we'll add more to
uaag techs.
[13:18] JR: PK: Any holes found?
[13:18] JR: JA: No holes found during DHTML review.
[13:18] JR: PK: Convinced there are holes...
[13:19] JR: PK: In semantic area - no way to convey semantic meanings
without API specifics
[13:19] JR: PK: Not enough to just say there's a DOM event and assume AT
knows about it.
[13:20] JR: PK: Because people are using AJAX to put apps inside browsers
that look remarkably like desktop apps.
[13:20] JR: PK: More work then is needed to bring these across to the user.
[13:20] JR: JA: But semantics in the code...
[13:22] JR: PK: But in IBM work, "this thing is a menu role" - in flash,
etc, etc. but as long as it is annotated appropriately and right events are
fired then it should be handled as a menu.
[13:22] JR: DL: That is the course that has been defined...
[13:22] JR: PK:L But not given PF blessing.
[13:24] JR: DL: IBM using unsupported techs (eg. XHTML 2.0) to do some of
this stuff.
[13:25] JR: DL: Where do we start now?
[13:26] JR: PK: We are talking about bring in section 508 (desktop
applications 1194.21) into UA.
[13:28] JR: PK: To some extent this is in WCAG -e.g. if you use Java etc. -
but now its not extra content that is passed off, its done with content that
the browser itself parses
[13:28] JR: DL: There's also Section 508 .22 that falls on the content
[13:30] JR: PK: More concretely: In
[13:31] JR: PK: Once I focus, i need to move it with keyboard PLUS i need
[13:32] JR: PK: All this needs to be exposed out through platform API
[13:33] JR: PK: UAAG should talk about how we expect roles etc to be used,
including examples.
[13:33] JR: PK: We should also reference, as examples, good examples of
annotated content.
[13:34] JR: JA: Right - in test suites
[13:34] JR: JA: Let's look at Google suggest
[13:35] JR: JA; JAWS does read some of it - what goes into form field.
[13:36] JR: JK: But JAWS FAILS because there is more to the menu item than
suggested text, there is also the number of results which JAWS did not read
[13:38] JR: JA: Playing devils advocate: is it the author who does it?
[13:38] JR: PK: Ideally it is the author of the AJAX GUI toolkits.
[13:39] JR: PK: Would already be done.
[13:39] JR: PK: AJAX authoring tool would also have accessibility validation
for this stuff.
[13:40] JR: PK: Basically this is the desktop coming to the browser.
[13:41] JR: PK: DHTML and AJAX are coming along REALLy fast.
[13:43] JR: PK: We would really like pf and ua to push out some guidance
[13:44] JR: PK: Fortunately roles, etc don' affect rendering so if they
change it shouldn't be a big deal
[13:45] JR: PK: Main starting point is Firefox existence proof.
[13:46] JR: JA: Don't want to rush opening uuag.
[13:46] JR: JR: Could be a W3C Note
[13:48] JR: PK: Not suggesting complete overhaul - it would be a new
[13:50] JR: JA: Thinking about changing techs note and point to PF work.
[13:51] JR: JR: Note also gives better flexibility to say platform specific
[13:51] JR: PK: This approach seems to make sense - though want to make sure
we go into enough detail.
[13:52] JR: PK: e.g. menu is a role from PF, this is what the expected
behaviour is
[13:52] JR: PK: then further in test suites
[13:56] jallan: discussion of Authoring tool
[13:56] jallan: inviting sun folks to speak at authoring tools meeting
[13:56] Zakim: -Earl_Johnson
[13:57] JR: JR: AUWG and WCAG-Gl should be informed about this as they go
towards last call.
[13:57] jallan: how to get DHTML concerns into wcag
[14:01] Zakim: - +1.877.625.aabb
[14:01] Zakim: -Peter_Korn
[14:01] Zakim: -Jan_Richards
[14:01] Zakim: -Jim_Allan
[14:01] Zakim: - +1.781.442.aaaa
[14:01] Zakim: WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
[14:01] Zakim: Attendees were +1.781.442.aaaa, Jan_Richards, Peter_Korn,
+1.877.625.aabb, Jim_Allan, Earl_Johnson
[14:03] *** WillieW has left #ua.
[14:05] jallan: rrsagent, set logs world-visible
[14:05] RRSAgent: I have made the request, jallan
[14:06] jallan: rrsagent, draft minutes
[14:06] RRSAgent: I have made the request to generate
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/16-ua-minutes.html jallan

Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
---> Share to Win!! <---

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Jim Allan
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:20 PM
To: Jim Allan; WAU-ua
Cc: Jan Richards
Subject: W3C User Agent Teleconference for 16 February 2006

W3C User Agent Teleconference for  16 February 2006
Chair: Jim Allan
Date: Thursday,  16 February 2006
Time: 2:00-3:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (19:00-20:00 UTC/GMT)
Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 8294#
IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua.

Please send RSVP or additional agenda items to the list.


apologies for the delay in posting this.

	1. AJAX - what is it? What are the accessibility issues? What are the
implications for UAAG?

	2. Review techniques for 1.2 Activate event handlers (P1)

		a. are the techniques robust enough to cover new web features such as
		b. what other guidelines apply to AJAX

	3. Review Test Suite items for 1.2 Activate event handlers (P1)
		a. are further test suite items required to cover user agent
implementation of AJAX

		The following are some AJAX examples - how can user agents make them more


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* to type a side comment that will _not_ get recorded in the minutes, type
/me comment - e.g.:
/me hopes Andrew had a good biking trip
- will come out:     *jim hopes Andrew had a good biking trip

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Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
---> Share to Win!! <---
Received on Thursday, 16 February 2006 20:13:18 UTC

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