- From: Ian B. Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
- Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 14:53:41 -0700
- To: ishida@w3.org
- CC: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Richard,
On behalf of the UAWG, I would like to thank you for the I18N
WG's review [1] of UAAG 1.0 as well as your own comments [2]. I
have already replied to your personal comments [3], which I
believe to be editorial. From that series, I will incorporate
your suggestion regarding checkpoint 2.2 (#ri-4) and a
clarification about the section numbering.
Please review this email and let us know whether you are
satisfied with how the UAWG proposes to address your issue. A
response before 4 October would be appreciated; let us know if
you require extra time.
Thank you,
- Ian
UAWG decisions were made at the 26 Sep 2002 teleconf:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002JulSep/0173
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002JulSep/0170
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002JulSep/0151
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002JulSep/0158
===============================
The UAWG divided issues into substantive and editorial.
I will incorporate your editorial suggestions i18n-3 and i18n-4.
------------------
Substantive issues
------------------
You wrote:
#i18n-1:
Checkpoint 2.10, checkpoint provision 1 The heading talks about
'language' whereas the checkpoint provision talks about
'scripts (ie. Writing systems)'. Both the title and text
should be changed to 'language or script', to cover both the
visual rendering case and the text-to-speech (or -to-braille)
case.
UAWG reply to issue 552:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/issues/issues-linear-lc4.html#552
Summary:
The UAWG agrees with the spirit of your suggestion. However,
* In light of the UAWG's original intent that this checkpoint
be about graphical rendering (screen readers scraping garbage
rendered characters), and
* In the face of no implementation experience for text-to-speech
and text-to-braille rendering,
the UAWG proposes to fix the title and reduce the scope of
the checkpoint to 'script' only.
Proposed title:
2.10 "Don't render text in unsupported writing systems".
Proposed addition to the start of the first provision: "For
graphical user agents, ..."
The UAWG proposes to make your point about other renderings in
the "Doing more" section of the Techniques document.
===
#i18n-2:
Checkpoint 2.10, checkpoint provision 1
Is it clear enough how one would know that text is in an
'unsupported script' or language? Whether or not something can
be rendered would presumably depend on the capabilities of the
application in a given modality, eg. font availability in a
visual modality (without necessarily a requirement to understand
the underlying semantics if this is a visual illustration);
recognisability of text (words) in a text-to-speech modality
(without necessarily a requirement to be able to display the
text).
Detection of an unsupported script or language would presumably
be significantly aided by recognition of markup indicating a
language, or recognition of a range of Unicode code points
(eg. the set of Latin characters used in Welsh or African
languages) that are known not to be supported. Perhaps,
therefore, it would be worthwhile to add another requirement
along the lines of: "Ensure recognition of any cues provided in
markup relating to a change of language or script." Examples
would include xml:lang in XHTML, :lang in CSS, lang in HTML,
etc.
Note that there is no markup at the moment in xml or html that
indicates a change of script, and there may never be. The text
'or script' was included above to cover any possibility of such
a thing occurring in a future implementation, given the
assumption that the guidelines are also aimed at people
developing new technologies.
UAWG reply:
You are correct: whether something is supported depends on
the capabilities of the user agent.
a) If the user agent cannot recognize language information
from the content, the user agent is not responsible
for satisfying the requirement; see the section on
"applicability". This conformance provision essentially
states (for a small set of circumstances): if the UA
can't recognize the information, it will not be penalized.
This first point relates to your second paragraph.
You suggest an additional checkpoint to "ensure recognition
of markup cues". This requirement is covered by our
checkpoint 2.1: to render content according to specification
(including I18N features).
b) If the user agent recognizes language information but
doesn't support its rendering, this checkpoint applies.
The UAWG believes no change to the document is required.
===
You wrote:
#i18n-5:
Checkpoint 4.2 Since global imposition of a Latin-only font
could break text in other scripts, perhaps this should be
finessed to say that it should be possible for the user to
specify different user preferred fonts by script group (much
like eg. the common browsers allow you to set default fonts for
Unicode ranges).
UAWG reply to issue 553
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/issues/issues-linear-lc4.html#553
The UAWG felt that, while certainly touching accessibility
issues, this proposal is more of an I18N requirement than an
accessibility requirement. Given a user agent that supports
N scripts, an internationalized user agent should allow
configuration of font family on a per-script basis.
"Character Model for the World Wide Web 1.0" addresses formats
more than user agent behavior. I note that the I18N WG
charter [4] refers to possible I18N guidelines:
"Audience may include content authors, programmers, webmasters,
creators of tools (web servers, authoring tools, user
agents,...), creators of DTDs/Schemas, and so on. The same
guideline may be addressed to more than one category of
audience."
It seems appropriate that this type of requirement (per-script
font family configuration) be part of a "User Agent
Internationalization Guidelines".
Due to the advanced status of UAAG 1.0, the UAWG proposes not to
include this new requirement, but instead to make the point in
the Techniques Document.
[4] http://www.w3.org/2002/05/i18n-recharter/WG-charter
--
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel: +1 718 260-9447
Received on Saturday, 28 September 2002 17:57:50 UTC