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Re: PROPOSAL: User Agent Issue 190: Reduce the scope of 5.1 to say "write access only for that which you can do through the UI."

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 19:57:58 -0500 (EST)
To: mark novak <menovak@facstaff.wisc.edu>
cc: schwer@us.ibm.com, Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <unagi69@concentric.net>, User Agent Guidelines Emailing List <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, WAI Protocols & Formats WG <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0002131953540.6791-100000@tux.w3.org>
Note, cross-posted to PF and User Agent.

There are two types of events in the current draft of DOM2 - there is an
abstract layer, which includes mutation events and some basic user interface
events such as actvate, and gain/lose focus. In my opinion it is reasonable
to implement these events as they are likely to form the basis of a
device-independent event model.

THere are also subclassed user interface events that are device
(mouse) specific. Implementing these is a mistake, or at best a sop to
backwards compatibility - a better model is to provide a path whereby these
are remapped by a user agent to the "new" model, where possible.

I agree with Mark that we are not in a position to require conformance to
DOM3, since at this stage the requirements haven't been set, and it is
impossible to justify it as an accessibility requirement on that basis,
beyond the existing requirement to use W3C specifications where available and

Charles McCN

On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, mark novak wrote:

  At 5:26 AM 2/11/00, <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
  >The DOM event model is an ongoing discussion in the WAI/PF. We are going to
  >submit requirements to the DOM working group regarding the event model for
  >DOM 3 in March.
  can somone point me to where this *discussion* is taking place within
  WAI/PF???   I would very much like to be apart of this...
  who are "we" when you say "We are going to submit requirements to the DOM
  working group"
  >The reason I put it at P2 was because DOM 2 is not out yet. I also share
  >some device independence issues regarding the DOM 2 event model.
  >If some developers could start adopting the DOM 2 event model, it should
  >reduce the time it would take to get the desired DOM 3 event model
  >implemented and also ATs would have something to go from.
  at present, I'd encourage developers to avoid the event model of DOM 2,
  assuming of course something more useable and robust appears for DOM 3, which
  would probably save the developers both development cost and grief!
  >We ought to be pushing for P1 with DOM 3 in the UA assuming the correct
  >changes are made between the DOM and PF working groups.
  it is unrealistic to push any priority over a document or spec. that isn't
  even yet written in my opinion.
  >menovak@facstaff.wisc.edu (mark novak) on 02/10/2000 10:15:30 AM
  >To:   Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, "Gregory J. Rosmaita"
  >      <unagi69@concentric.net>, Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
  >      Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
  >cc:   User Agent Guidelines Emailing List <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, WAI
  >      Protocols & Formats WG <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
  >Subject:  Re: PROPOSAL: User Agent Issue 190: Reduce the scope of 5.1 to
  >      say   "write  access only for that which you can do through the UI."
  >hi Jon and all
  >I agree that all elements ought to understand and implement
  >the appropriate event model, so for the UA, I don't see my
  >next comment changing the UA process at the moment.
  >However, I'm not in favor of making this a priority 1, since I'm not
  >a fan of the event model within DOM 2.  This is an on-going
  >(I hope ) discussion on the PF/DOM working group lists.
  >After the events/event model are understood, this checkpoint
  >may need re-visiting.
  >At 8:55 AM 2/10/00, Jon Gunderson wrote:
  >>It seems there is a consensus to merge 5.3 and 5.5 from my proposal into a
  >>single checkpoint of at least Priority 2 and maybe a priority 1 level.
  >>new checkpoint would require implementation of the event model specified
  >>the Candidate Recommendation of DOM2 for all elements.

Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative                      http://www.w3.org/WAI
21 Mitchell Street, Footscray, VIC 3011,  Australia 
Received on Sunday, 13 February 2000 19:58:02 UTC

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