RE: direct and spatial mapping to functionalities

Not if it is on by default.

Charles McCN

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Denis Anson wrote:

  I'd say that the current language including "without additional
  customization" would preclude the use of mouse-keys to provide access.
  Activating MouseKeys is "additional customization."
  
  Denis Anson, MS, OTR
  Assistant Professor
  College Misericordia
  301 Lake St.
  Dallas, PA 18612
  
  Member since 1989:
  RESNA: An International Association of Assistive Techology Professionals
  Website: http://www.resna.org
  RESNA ANNUAL CONFERENCE -- "RESNA 2000"
  ORLANDO, FL, JUNE 28 -- July 2, 2000
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org]On Behalf
  Of thatch@us.ibm.com
  Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:20 AM
  To: Jon Gunderson
  Cc: Charles McCathieNevile; Marja-Riitta Koivunen; w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
  Subject: Re: direct and spatial mapping to functionalities
  
  
  I think it was Charles' point that mouse emmulation (mouse keys) make any
  application be keyboard enabled - which, of course, is not the point. How
  about
  adding "natively" to the keyboard checkpoint.
  
  Jim Thatcher
  IBM Special Needs Systems
  www.ibm.com/sns
  HPR Documentation page: http://www.austin.ibm.com/sns/hprdoc.html
  thatch@us.ibm.com
  (512)838-0432
  
  
  Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu> on 10/04/99 10:46:52 AM
  
  To:   Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>, James
  Thatcher/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
  cc:   Marja-Riitta Koivunen <marja@w3.org>, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
  Subject:  Re: direct and spatial mapping to functionalities
  
  
  
  
  Mousekeys doesn't address the problems people with visual impairments.  The
  problem is more than just not being able to use the standard mouse, it is
  also the perceptual/motor task of lining up the pointer with a target on
  the visual display.  This is an almost impossible task for some types of
  disabilities.  The keyboard support is needed for users, especially people
  with visual impairments, to be able to achieve the same functional results
  as mouse users using keyboard commands.  Many tasks can easily be both
  keyboard and pointer based, others like drawing a bit-mapped picture or
  graphic in drawing program are not.
  Jon
  
  
  At 10:52 PM 10/3/99 -0400, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
  >This is true, if done correctly. However I think there are some issues to
  be
  >resolved.
  >
  >  1. As Marja has pointed out, implementing mousekeys would satisfy the
  >  checkpoint with respect to IE/Opera/Netscape (and a lot of other
  software)
  >  without satisfactorily solving the problem of access.
  >
  >  2. A minimum requirement is not just to be able to use the keyboard, but
  to
  >  provide access to the functionalities through the standard keyboard API.
  >  Although this is the obvious way to do it, it should be stateed
  explicitly
  >  in the text of the requirement.
  >
  >I think the real question is the interface model - creating a model which
  >relies in a fundamental way on the user dealing with spatial relationships
  >rather than allowing serial or "by-name" interaction with the interface
  >components is the real problem, I think.
  >
  >One of the problems is the way that HTML events were originally
  implemented,
  >using a fundamentally mouse-based model of the user interface. It should
  >probably be a requirement for HTML-consuming browsers that they work with
  an
  >improved device-specific event model as soon as one is available. (There is
  >work on this going on in the DOM working group, among others).
  >
  >Please do not stop Marja. I think you have identified a problem we didn't
  >see, and I think you have pointed to the answer too.
  >
  >Charles McCN
  >
  >
  >On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 thatch@us.ibm.com wrote:
  >
  >
  >
  >  MK: Does everybody else understand this perfectly and agree that the
  current
  >  wording reflects it? Then I will stop.
  >
  >  JT: I am not going to ask you to stop, but even if 2.1 is flawed
  >  (and I don't think it is) it should remain as is. The wording is
  >  unequivocal and clear. It is, in my opinion, the most important
  >  checkpoint for access to software for multiple disabilities. Water
  >  it down or generalize it and it will loose its focus and force.
  >
  >  2.1 By default and without additional customization, ensure that all
  >  functionalities offered by the user agent are accessible using the
  keyboard.
  >
  >  Jim Thatcher
  >  IBM Special Needs Systems
  >  www.ibm.com/sns
  >  HPR Documentation page: http://www.austin.ibm.com/sns/hprdoc.html
  >  thatch@us.ibm.com
  >  (512)838-0432
  >
  >
  >  Marja-Riitta Koivunen <marja@w3.org> on 09/29/99 10:56:43 AM
  >
  >  To:   Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
  >  cc:   ian@w3.org, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
  >  Subject:  Re: direct and spatial mapping to functionalities
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >  At 11:33 AM 9/29/99 -0400, Ian Jacobs wrote:
  >  >Marja-Riitta Koivunen wrote:
  >  >>
  >  >> While thinking about conformance I was looking the guidelines and
  >  >> checkpoints again. I still don't like the word keyboard in guideline
  2. I
  >  >> also think keyboard access is not what we want to say in  many
  checkpoints
  >  >> e.g. in
  >  >>
  >  >> 2.1 By default and without additional customization, ensure that all
  >  >> functionalities offered by the user agent are accessible using the
  >  keyboard.
  >  >>
  >  >> So you could use the keyboard arrow keys to point and some other key
  to
  >  >> select and still conform? Or what about my laptop keyboard with a
  finger
  >  >> mouse built into it?
  >  >>
  >  >> I think we want to say something about offering direct mapping from
  input
  >  >> device keys to the functionalities as opposite to spatial mapping with
  >  >> pointing and graphical objects. In the first case we usually have many
  >keys
  >  >> or key combinations that the user needs to remember but no need to
  >point or
  >  >> see. In the latter case we need to remember just few keys and some way
  to
  >  >> point in 2D (or 3D). If we can present the activating of
  functionalities
  >  >> with graphical objects or by using force feedback it often helps
  memory
  >but
  >  >> it is slower to get to the functions.
  >  >>
  >  >> I think both mappings are important. The point&click UI with
  explorable
  >  >> memory aid (e.g. graphical  objects, sound map, force feedback map)
  helps
  >  >> cognitively disabled (and everyone with human memory) the direct
  mapping
  >  >> helps motorically disabled because some key or morse code etc. can be
  >  >> mapped directly to the function without need to go through the
  spatially
  >  >> located object.
  >  >
  >  >There is an analogy with serial access to links (which provides
  >  >context as-you-go) and direct access (which is faster, but requires
  >  >more experience). Explaining the utility of both for access
  >  >to UA functionality would be useful (we already do so for navigation).
  >  >
  >  >However, I think your abstraction overlooks the need that motivated
  >  >this Guideline: assistive technology today relies on software using
  >  >the standard OS keyboard API (please correct me if I'm wrong). This
  >  >Guideline is less abstract than others since it addresses today's
  >  >technology and today's requirements. Device-independence captures
  >  >the principle while talking about the keyboard API captures today's
  >  >need.
  >
  >  Guideline is not a checkpoint, so it is not what people check, it does
  not
  >  even have priorities. It is put higher up because it is important, still
  >  this guideline does not need to be conformed always. So I'm confuced.
  >
  >  Then I look the actual checkspoint under the guideline, such as
  >
  >  2.1 By default and without additional customization, ensure that all
  >  > functionalities offered by the user agent are accessible using the
  >keyboard.
  >  >
  >  > So you could use the keyboard arrow keys to point and some other key to
  >  > select and still conform? Or what about my laptop keyboard with a
  finger
  >  > mouse built into it?
  >
  >  And I'm even more confused. Here I agree we should mention keyboard, but
  >  when we have mentioned it, it seems not to help. Can I use some of my
  >  keyboard keys (or even my keyboard mouse for pointing) and conform to
  this?
  >  I don't think this is what we want.
  >
  >  Does everybody else understand this perfectly and agree that the current
  >  wording reflects it? Then I will stop.
  >
  >  Marja
  >
  >
  >  >I am not yet convinced (but still open!) that presenting the
  >  >Guideline as requiring direct v. serial access to UA functionality
  >  >will adequately address the requirement of today's technology.
  >  >
  >  >Please let me know if my comments reflect an understanding of
  >  >your suggestion.
  >  >
  >  >Thank you,
  >  >
  >  > - Ian
  >  >
  >  >
  >  >> A separate thing is then how to present all this. If the user can see
  she
  >  >> can have memory aid on the screen (or even paper) also for directly
  mapped
  >  >> keyboard events, if she cannot she needs to rely more on memory. On
  the
  >  >> other hand she may use spatial mapping and exhaustive spatial search
  with
  >  >> sound or force feedback to help her memory. The graphical object model
  >  >> provides the memory aid naturally but can also be badly designed.
  >  >>
  >  >> Marja
  >  >
  >  >--
  >  >Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
  >  >Tel/Fax:                     +1 212 684-1814
  >  >Cell:                        +1 917 450-8783
  >  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >--Charles McCathieNevile            mailto:charles@w3.org
  >phone: +1 617 258 0992   http://www.w3.org/People/Charles
  >W3C Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/WAI
  >MIT/LCS  -  545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139,  USA
  
  Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
  Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
  Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
  Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
  University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
  1207 S. Oak Street
  Champaign, IL 61820
  
  Voice: 217-244-5870
  Fax: 217-333-0248
  E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
  WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
            http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
            http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
  
  
  

--Charles McCathieNevile            mailto:charles@w3.org
phone: +1 617 258 0992   http://www.w3.org/People/Charles
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/WAI
MIT/LCS  -  545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139,  USA

Received on Monday, 4 October 1999 12:01:18 UTC