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Minutes from 11 August UAGL Teleconference

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:48:56 -0400
Message-ID: <37B1B788.FF3BEB5B@w3.org>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
11 August 1999
UAGL Teleconf

Chair/Scribe: Ian Jacobs
 Glen Gordon
 Harvey Bingham
 Charles McCathieNevile
 David Poehlman
 Rich Schwerdtfeger

 Gregory Rosmaita
 Mark Novak
 Jon Gunderson

Next meeting: 18 August.


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JulSep/0096.html

Agenda 0) Microsoft has confirmed host of meeting 11-12 October.

   Intends to attend: Charles, Ian, Harvey, Glen, David, Rich
   CMN: Gregory planning to attend.
   IJ: I suspect Jon will.

   Action Ian: Link meeting page from home page.

Agenda 1) Outstanding Action Items

1.a) David Poehlman: Send reference to the mousetrap to the list. 
     Statu: Done

1.b) Judy Brewer: Follow up with W3C meeting planner and Microsoft for
     11-12 October. Backup plan for Florida after ATIA
     Status: Done.

1.c) Ian Jacobs: Send proposed text for resolved checkpoints 
    (see below) to list. 
     Status: Done.

1.d) Rich Schwerdtfeger: Review conformance statement, and classes of
     browsers (HPR) see where it fits into classes, present proposal 
     to list if needed. 
     Status: Dropped. Since we will discuss conformance categories
     as soon as possible on the call.

1.e) GR/DP: Review all checkpoints and document how particular issues
     apply in a frameset context. 
     Status: Done. 
          (These are Ian's comments.)

1.f) IJ: Write a proposal for dealing with natural language changes and
     primary identification to replace Checkpoint 9.9.
     Status: Done.

     GG: I am confused by the term "natural language".

     Action Ian: Ensure that definition appears in document.

1.g) GR: Write a proposal for a configuration checkpoint for guideline 9
     (any information made available to the user). 
     Status: Pending.

Agenda 2) 

2.a) Orientation Checkpoints:

     And Mark Novak comments:

     Subsumes also link checkpoint proposal:

 RESOLVED: All these checkpoints ok with clarifications listed below.

   HB: Allow the user to control the level of detail.

   GG: Need to say list one of two.
   IJ: Don't use variables, use numbers.
   CMN: Add cross-refs from pertinent "dependent UA" checkpoints
       to checkpoint about where they get information.

   IJ: Should this be for dependent user agents only? 

   Action Charles: Write a proposal on making this or not making
   this checkpoint "for dependent UAs only".

   IJ: I don't like "make available".
   CMN: "Make clear"
   GG: "Indicate"
  Action Ian: s/make clear/indicate

   HB: What about if the user must provide information?
   DP: Not the same since not known when you follow the link.

   IJ: Should this be for dependent UAs?

  Action Charles: Include in previous proposal.

  HB: What about column groups/multiple bodies? Is there
      a table header/footer?

  Action Ian: Clarify this checkpoint (e.g., row column 

  Resolved: For dependent user agents.


   Action Ian: add "for" example from HTML.

   HB: This checkpoint seems wrong to me.
   Action Ian: Ensure that it's clear that bug fixes and
               improvements are possible.
   HB: "should not be arbitrary". People don't do this.
   RS: Yes they do. <organization name deleted...>
   Action Ian: Change to "In particular, make changes conservatively
   to A, B, and C..."


   GG: What does "interactable state" mean? Text has arrived but
   not images? Links active?

   CMN: Depends on which browser. Lynx will let you page through
   what's loaded, but you can't tab through links. Amaya will
   let you click once a link appears, even if full document not

   HB: From accessibility point of view: we want to be able
   to productive work as soon as possible and need to know 
   when that's possible.

   GG: You should be able to read text when it appears, not
   have to wait for images. Perhaps you get notification sooner
   if you turn off support for images.

   Resolved: Drop "and when the user may begin to browse"

  RESOLVED: In techniques document - talk about handling broken
  links to avoid disorienting users (e.g,. notify + leave viewport
  in place).


   Action Ian: 
     Clarify wording to indicate relative position in the document.

2.b) Natural Language checkpoint:

RESOLVE: Implement this proposal.

2.c) Proposal to generalize link rendering:

 RESOLVED: Delete 7.12. But keep color note either in guidelines or

 RESOVLED:  Adopt proposal for 7.13.

DP: Screen readers used to look for borders. They may not anymore.

GG: Issue: What to do with image with no alt text that's in a link.
  How does this interact with 7.4 and 7.5? Worst case is an image
  map. We render part of the URL (the most we've got).

 Action Ian: Add to issues list.

2.d) Techniques for accessing content

Action Charles: Propose outline of techniques for user control of style
Action David: Techniques for 3.6.
Action GG: Look over my proposal.
Action HB, RS: Look at techniques document.
Action Ian: Send note to list asking for techniques contributions.

2.e) Does zoom functionality (which preserves layout) meet font
     size control requirement?

CMN: But you lose the rest of the presentation.

All: Yes, satisfies need for low vision.

HB: I don't agree, you have to scroll and it's a hassle.

RS: Perhaps changing font size is a technique for enhancing the

CMN: But you don't solve the problem: Allowing user control
of presentation and layout.

Action Ian: Indicate as one technique for font size control.

3) Issues

3.a) Issue 74: Value of checkpoint on volume control 
     URL: http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#74

 IJ: I propose we drop this. 
 DP: But there are applications that are delivered on the Web that
     have volume controls on them. 
CMN: In Windows, you can have a lot of different sources of sound. You
     want to be able to control the relative volumes. Checkpoint
     might be satisfied by deferring to OS. If you have two 
     apps running in your browser that produce sound, you need to
     control them.

 Action Ian: Clarify that Checkpoint 6.12 (audio volume) is for
     native handling of sound.
Received on Wednesday, 11 August 1999 13:49:03 UTC

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