August 12th Telecon minutes

The information following can also be found at the following URL:

Dennis Anson
Kitch Barnicle
Harvey Bingham
Judy Brewer
Daniel Dardailler
Jon Gunderson (Chair)
Markku T. Hakkinen
Kathy Hewitt
Ian Jacobs
Marja-Riitta Koivunen

Jim Allan
Napoleon Maou

Action Items and Conclusions
Table Serialization WD update: HB, MH, KB, JG
Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in
next telecon on August 26th
Keyboard acess WD udate: JG, DA 
Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in
next telecon on August 26th

Topic: Tables
jg: dd could you give us an overview of tables
dd: html 4.0 has new markup for tables and allows for semantic representations
tables used for layout
project at sofia on serialization of tables using a proxy server
navigation is more difficult problem to test with proxy server
da: 2 dimensional to 1 a diminsional table
dd: serialization of tables
hb: column by column rather than by line by line
kh: what about table and column header
how woul you designate column headers
dd: for each cell you can identify the column header, this can be repeated the
ij: in css there is a speak header
mk: you should able do it on the fly
dd: how much we can do in user agent. a proxy is limited
kh: this information could be exposed to user agent
dd: this an ideal case if other groups cooperated. the current project is a
jg: We maybe able to using a script in IE to test some of these principles
dd: I would like to know how this would be better than the proxy approach 
jg: It may be able to support navigation 
da: the cell relationsip information is important and should be preserved in
some types of tables
dd: proxy is can do the same as script for serialization
da: could proxy add cell navigation through anchors
dd: it could be done, but it may clutter visual display
proxy can not provide navigation
hb: each cell has its own domain, units could indicate the number of row and
colum cells
dd: proxy server approach will be reviewed by wai groups
user agent guideline implication need to be identified 
kh: i need information on what the user needs
jg: repeated specs in current wd
dd: we have info from lynx and pwWebSpeak
da: there may be times that row by row is better than column by column
jb: what about having a do another way button or command
dd: support table semantics, second level, organization
Opera may implement turning off table display, simple serialization
Asking developers to make even simple changes requires testing
jg: move current selection 
dd: Opera uses this technique already
supported by screen readers
What does screen reader do and what does screen reader do
da: dragon dictate does read tables
dd: screen readers provide support for reading selected text
da: screen readers
kb: screen readers are 
New topic: Keyboard control
jg: overview of current wd on direct selection
hb: twisties is another example
expanding and contracting lists of lists
da: explorer interface?
hb: look at higher level topics and search
jg: overview of direct navigation
mk: it is needed
da: pages are just weigh stations to somewhere else
dd: this can be done with dom, i have seen this 
kb: not just a question of taking out links
mh: customization capability to move to specifuc html tag information, skip
over advertising
kb: is it still sequential
mh: go to next markup target
jg: we could use pwWebSpeak
mh: we ship with different style sheets
mk: different pages want different 
kb: looked at discussion list on voice input and people complain about tab
mh: phone interfaces can use audio style sheets 
da: is this a problem for poorly designed WWW pages
mh: semantic information is already help
dd: UA WD doesn't have information about poor web design like "click here"
UA can do alot of potential things
da: what about image maps?
dd: client side you can do things and server side not much
client could look at URL title, for click heres
kh: performance woul suffer, page author guidelines
da: could it be a background task?
hw: browsers would be looking for stuff all the time and there would be
performance problems. What would browsers need to look for?
poor use of network band width, 
mh: It seems like a lot of work and potential performance problems
jb: Summary of keyboard navigation
Direct selection is a good idea in general
Selection of controls anchors vs. non-control and non-anchor elements
Use of HTML markup for direct selection
da: do we want acess to only well designed pages or what is really out there?
jg: gave tables for layout example as a similar problem
good bys 

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: 217-244-5870
Fax: 217-333-0248

Received on Wednesday, 12 August 1998 13:01:16 UTC