Re: Animation conveying information

I feel like I am missing something here.

Ms J, is the project creating an added layer of support through this
animation to assist sighted users who may be experiencing text-based
literacy barriers but for whom other users not needing that support can
access the controls/features/process?

Do the functional controls referenced by the animated instruction include
programmatically accessible text-based labeling (and do not break with any
other access requirements for functional elements)?

Is the overall process required (not the animation add on but the source
experience) meaningfully conveyed to end user?

If so, what is the concern or question? This all reads like an secondary
rather than primary feature or component. In short, an accessible
alternative.

But I could absolutely be misunderstanding something.

Ben

On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 3:14 PM Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good question, I am looking at it as a third party and they've asked for a
> WCAG perspective as I think they want an idea of how accessible it is.
> There is a lot of content on the site that can't be made accessible by its
> nature (because it is about interacting with images for example so it would
> need a different version entirely for screen reader users). But where it
> can be made accessible, I would like to give them alternatives. For
> example, a written instruction would actually work for screen reader users,
> because it'll be read aloud by the screen reading software. So even if
> other users can't read it, a screen reader user actually can read it with
> their software.
>
> But the animation conveying instructions issue is something that could
> feasibly appear on another website (albeit in my 4 years working in
> accessibility it's never cropped up before...) It's an interesting one for
> me though, just from the perspective of it being a type of information
> which doesn't quite fit any description... it feels aligned with non-text
> content, a state, time-based media, an instruction and yet it doesn't
> really fit any of those perfectly.
>
> My initial instinct was that it's video only content and I'm sort of
> coming back around to that in my head? In theory, you could create a whole
> HTML/CSS and JS animated scene and then it would be considered a video, so
> would this not just be a video in its simplest form?
>
> In fact, I just looked at the definition of 'video' content in wcag again,
> and it says 'the technology of moving or sequenced pictures or images.
> Note: Video can be made up of animated or photographic images, or both.'
>
> This fits the animated image pointing to content, but maybe doesn't quite
> fit the animated button... unless you consider the visual display of the
> button a 'picture', which I think I may just so as to not overthink this!
>
> Thanks
>
> Sarah
>
>
> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 3, 2024 10:25:45 PM
> *To:* Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <
> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Animation conveying information
>
> Thanks for the context, Sarah.
>
> From you description it sounds like they are instructions, albeit not
> written.
>
> It sounds like your use case is very specific to a particular user group.
> Whereas WCAG is a set of rules designed for as wide an audience as possible.
>
> The obvious question is therefore, does this site need to be WCAG
> compliant? And  if so, would an alternative mode or conforming site be more
> appropriate?
>
> On Saturday, August 3, 2024, Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Not sure if this context helps, but the service is for people who can't
> read... so they are trying to offer instructions on what to do without
> using written instructions. It tells you (in audio) to follow an example,
> and then uses movement to show you what to click in order (no audio
> equivalent for this). So you click the first animated button, the next
> button is then animated and so on, so you can follow the animation through
> the process. So the movement is definitely a prompt or non-verbal
> instruction - sensory characteristics does feel like a good fit to me,
> although the movement as an instruction is technically not 'referring to
> the item by visual characteristics', but it is referring to the item - it's
> essentially 'pointing at it' directly/ drawing attention to it. It's a bit
> of a meta reference in a sense, because it's just pointing at itself and in
> doing so there's an implicit instruction... it's sort of equivalent to
> saying 'the button is 'this one', therefore click it'
> > Thanks
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > Sent from Outlook for iOS
> > ________________________________
> > From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 12:43:05 PM
> > To: Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com>
> > Cc: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> > Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
> >
> > Hmm, I think your wide definition of "instructions" would be difficult
> uphold.
> >
> > The understanding text of 1.3.3 defines instructions as a "description"
> that doesn't rely on shape/location. e.g click the round green button below
> to continue.
> >
> > A pulsing button with no instruction is certainly drawing attention to
> itself, but I would argue that it has no instruction as to it's meaning per
> se. For instance, if I saw a pulsing button, I wouldn't think, yep, that's
> how to submit this form.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, August 3, 2024, Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com> wrote:
> >> Michael,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You’re assuming instructions can only be given in text. That’s not the
> case here. The pulsing change of size itself is providing the instructions,
> as Ms J says “to show that you must click a button next, the button pulses”.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The normative requirement to “not rely solely on sensory
> characteristics of components such as shape, color, size, visual location,
> orientation, or sound” is not limited to text.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ricky
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 4:37 PM
> >> To: Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com>
> >> Cc: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> >> Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You don't often get email from mike.j.livesey@gmail.com. Learn why
> this is important
> >>
> >> CAUTION:EXTERNAL EMAIL SENDER!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think 1.3.3 applies to the instructions rather than the control
> itself? So it would only fail 1.3.3 if there was an instruction that read -
> "Please click the pulsing button to proceed".
> >>
> >> If there were no instructions, or the instruction read - "Please click
> the pulsing button labelled Next", it would pass.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 2:25 AM Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ms J,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Since it’s relying solely on a change of size to convey information,
> I’d suggest 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics applies.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ricky
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 4:37 AM
> >> To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> >> Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You don't often get email from ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com. Learn why this
> is important
> >>
> >> CAUTION:EXTERNAL EMAIL SENDER!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi all
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for replying. For clarity, I have already noted the
> nonconformance for pause, stop, hide. However, I don't feel this is
> sufficient alone (in response to the my direct email replies) because even
> if they provide a mechanism so that it can be paused, say, that still
> doesn't solve the problem that there is no alternative for screen reader
> users.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Colour isn't used as a means of conveying any information so use of
> colour doesn't come into it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The animation is simply the button transitioning smoothly between a
> small and big size so it prompts users to interact with it by 'pulsing' - I
> guess something similar visually would be the way apple programmes you have
> open on a mac jump up and down at you from the bottom ribbon to tell you
> you have a notification.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So my question really is when I suggest it needs an alternative for
> screen reader users, what SC would I align it with?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I could consider motion a state and therefore fail it for 1.3.1 and
> 4.1.2 as you suggest Steve. But then I have a follow up question. So I also
> have other animated content on the website. So there is an image of a
> pointing finger which moves to indicate what to click. This image has no
> text alternative. Would you then fail it for 1.1.1 and 1.3.1 and 4.1.2? I
> feel like that makes sense, but I believe 4.1.2 only applies to user
> interface controls not images? So then I couldn't fail all animated content
> in the same way for the same...  it leads to the problem where motion is a
> state for a UI control, but not for an image?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Does the fact it's animated make it time based media? It's position is
> dependent on time so it feels like time based media? Like video only
> content? I'm thinking of 1.2.1, but appreciate it doesn't really feel like
> it fits.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sarah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Outlook for iOS
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
> >> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 7:08 PM
> >> To: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> >
> >> Subject: RE: Animation conveying information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It may be a non-conformance of SC 1.4.1: Use of Color if the change of
> colour does not have a contrast ratio of at least 3:1.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Also, if the button changes from not pulsing to pulsing it would be
> indicating a change of state, so the information would need to be conveyed
> programmatically as per SC 1.3.1 and 4.1.2.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It may also be a non-conformance of SC 2.3.1: Three Flashes or Below
> Threshold and/or SC 2.2.2: Pause, Stop, Hide.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve Green
> >>
> >> Managing Director
> >>
> >> Test Partners Ltd
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 5:11 PM
> >> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> >> Subject: Animation conveying information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This is maybe niche and something I haven't seen before. I have a
> website which uses animation to convey information. For example, to show
> that you must click a button next, the button pulses. This is information
> conveyed by movement. It isn't really time based media and it isn't really
> non-text content... it is animation/movement used to convey instruction.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What SC would you align this with please? It is almost sensory
> characteristics but the instruction is implicit in the animation....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It needs an alternative for people who can't perceive the animation,
> would this be 1.1.1? Or 1.2.1?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sarah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Outlook for iOS
>