Re: Animation conveying information

Thanks for the context, Sarah.

From you description it sounds like they are instructions, albeit not
written.

It sounds like your use case is very specific to a particular user group.
Whereas WCAG is a set of rules designed for as wide an audience as possible.

The obvious question is therefore, does this site need to be WCAG
compliant? And  if so, would an alternative mode or conforming site be more
appropriate?

On Saturday, August 3, 2024, Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure if this context helps, but the service is for people who can't
read... so they are trying to offer instructions on what to do without
using written instructions. It tells you (in audio) to follow an example,
and then uses movement to show you what to click in order (no audio
equivalent for this). So you click the first animated button, the next
button is then animated and so on, so you can follow the animation through
the process. So the movement is definitely a prompt or non-verbal
instruction - sensory characteristics does feel like a good fit to me,
although the movement as an instruction is technically not 'referring to
the item by visual characteristics', but it is referring to the item - it's
essentially 'pointing at it' directly/ drawing attention to it. It's a bit
of a meta reference in a sense, because it's just pointing at itself and in
doing so there's an implicit instruction... it's sort of equivalent to
saying 'the button is 'this one', therefore click it'
> Thanks
> Sarah
>
>
> Sent from Outlook for iOS
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 12:43:05 PM
> To: Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com>
> Cc: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
>
> Hmm, I think your wide definition of "instructions" would be difficult
uphold.
>
> The understanding text of 1.3.3 defines instructions as a "description"
that doesn't rely on shape/location. e.g click the round green button below
to continue.
>
> A pulsing button with no instruction is certainly drawing attention to
itself, but I would argue that it has no instruction as to it's meaning per
se. For instance, if I saw a pulsing button, I wouldn't think, yep, that's
how to submit this form.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 3, 2024, Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com> wrote:
>> Michael,
>>
>>
>>
>> You’re assuming instructions can only be given in text. That’s not the
case here. The pulsing change of size itself is providing the instructions,
as Ms J says “to show that you must click a button next, the button pulses”.
>>
>>
>>
>> The normative requirement to “not rely solely on sensory characteristics
of components such as shape, color, size, visual location, orientation, or
sound” is not limited to text.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ricky
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 4:37 PM
>> To: Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com>
>> Cc: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't often get email from mike.j.livesey@gmail.com. Learn why this
is important
>>
>> CAUTION:EXTERNAL EMAIL SENDER!
>>
>>
>>
>> I think 1.3.3 applies to the instructions rather than the control
itself? So it would only fail 1.3.3 if there was an instruction that read -
"Please click the pulsing button to proceed".
>>
>> If there were no instructions, or the instruction read - "Please click
the pulsing button labelled Next", it would pass.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 2:25 AM Ricky Onsman <ronsman@tpgi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ms J,
>>
>>
>>
>> Since it’s relying solely on a change of size to convey information, I’d
suggest 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics applies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ricky
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 4:37 AM
>> To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Animation conveying information
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't often get email from ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com. Learn why this is
important
>>
>> CAUTION:EXTERNAL EMAIL SENDER!
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for replying. For clarity, I have already noted the
nonconformance for pause, stop, hide. However, I don't feel this is
sufficient alone (in response to the my direct email replies) because even
if they provide a mechanism so that it can be paused, say, that still
doesn't solve the problem that there is no alternative for screen reader
users.
>>
>>
>>
>> Colour isn't used as a means of conveying any information so use of
colour doesn't come into it.
>>
>>
>>
>> The animation is simply the button transitioning smoothly between a
small and big size so it prompts users to interact with it by 'pulsing' - I
guess something similar visually would be the way apple programmes you have
open on a mac jump up and down at you from the bottom ribbon to tell you
you have a notification.
>>
>>
>>
>> So my question really is when I suggest it needs an alternative for
screen reader users, what SC would I align it with?
>>
>>
>>
>> I could consider motion a state and therefore fail it for 1.3.1 and
4.1.2 as you suggest Steve. But then I have a follow up question. So I also
have other animated content on the website. So there is an image of a
pointing finger which moves to indicate what to click. This image has no
text alternative. Would you then fail it for 1.1.1 and 1.3.1 and 4.1.2? I
feel like that makes sense, but I believe 4.1.2 only applies to user
interface controls not images? So then I couldn't fail all animated content
in the same way for the same...  it leads to the problem where motion is a
state for a UI control, but not for an image?
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the fact it's animated make it time based media? It's position is
dependent on time so it feels like time based media? Like video only
content? I'm thinking of 1.2.1, but appreciate it doesn't really feel like
it fits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
>> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 7:08 PM
>> To: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>> Subject: RE: Animation conveying information
>>
>>
>>
>> It may be a non-conformance of SC 1.4.1: Use of Color if the change of
colour does not have a contrast ratio of at least 3:1.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, if the button changes from not pulsing to pulsing it would be
indicating a change of state, so the information would need to be conveyed
programmatically as per SC 1.3.1 and 4.1.2.
>>
>>
>>
>> It may also be a non-conformance of SC 2.3.1: Three Flashes or Below
Threshold and/or SC 2.2.2: Pause, Stop, Hide.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Green
>>
>> Managing Director
>>
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ms J <ms.jflz.woop@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 5:11 PM
>> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Animation conveying information
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello
>>
>>
>>
>> This is maybe niche and something I haven't seen before. I have a
website which uses animation to convey information. For example, to show
that you must click a button next, the button pulses. This is information
conveyed by movement. It isn't really time based media and it isn't really
non-text content... it is animation/movement used to convey instruction.
>>
>>
>>
>> What SC would you align this with please? It is almost sensory
characteristics but the instruction is implicit in the animation....
>>
>>
>>
>> It needs an alternative for people who can't perceive the animation,
would this be 1.1.1? Or 1.2.1?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook for iOS