(unknown charset) RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: question regarding printed PDF documents

Hi Kevin,
Where is this principle articulated?
Can you share  places it is incorporated, public policy for example, broad 
enough  that a general public business owner can find it without many 
challenges?
or is this principle rooted only in the United Kingdom?
Just seeking understanding,
Karen



On Tue, 23 Jan 2024, Kevin Prince wrote:

> The principle is that an accessible option is available for each process
> - for some that will be print: for others the digital. The print does not
> need to be fully accessible: nor does the digital as long as, in the
> round, there is an accessible method of achieving the function.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Prince
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
> 
> Foster Moore
> A Teranet Company
> 
> E kevin.prince@fostermoore.com
> Christchurch
> fostermoore.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deborah Dinzes <Deborah.Dinzes@becu.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2024 9:32 AM
> To: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: question regarding printed PDF
> documents
> 
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> 
> Thank you for this information, David.
> 
> I think the key point is we aren't forcing anyone to print and sign a
> document, as we provide a digital alternative. I would agree you can't
> really make every option work for every everyone. I've used the example
> of a building with stairs out front: ADA requires that we add a ramp,
> which incidentally is helpful for a lot of people besides people in
> wheelchairs. ADA does not require that we then get rid of the stairs just
> because people in wheelchairs can't use stairs. That's sort of what's
> being suggested by some colleagues. I just wanted to confirm that there's
> nothing in the WCAG rules stating that we must make printed forms
> digitally signable (since we provide a digitally signable option) -- I
> had not seen such a requirement, but I'm not an expert. So, I'm asking
> the experts. 😊
> 
> I believe we support the use of stamps or other devices to sign
> documents. It makes sense. If someone wants to print and sign a document
> using a signature stamp, as long as the signature matches the one on
> file, they're good to go. In fact I expect we have accounts on file that
> use this device, because we only recently started adding all our forms to
> DocuSign. I'll double check this with our Legal and Compliance staff that
> stamps are acceptable.
> 
> Thanks again for your feedback.
> 
> Deborah Dinzes
> Sr Technical Writer, Knowledge Management Offsite | m (425) 443-9524
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 3:15 PM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: question regarding printed PDF
> documents
> 
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> 
> On 18/01/2024 18:58, Jerra Strong wrote:
> > I'm still interested while reading through the replies if there is
> > consensus that a form which cannot be digitally filled out or signed
> (i.e.
> > requiring printing of the form) is a legal compliance risk or issue
> > due to accessibility concerns.
> 
> I'd suggest that if you force people to physically sign, when that is
> physically impracticable, they will end up with satisfying your
> requirement, to them, which defeats the value of the signature as
> something that can be compared against a specimen, as they may well
> resort to tools to merge an image, before printing.
> 
> Incidentally, in CJK environments, stamps (chops) were traditionally used
> to sign documents, and, I believe, in the UK companies can still sign, by
> impressing a relief seal into the paper. Also, when my father was signing
> cheques for a large public sector organisation, he used a two colour
> stamp of his signature.
> 
> UK banks, at least seem to accept passwords, and callbacks with code
> numbers, and one time code generators, as authenticators, and then accept
> a simply form button press as the confirmation of the transaction. It
> seems to me that ink and paper signatures are an obsolescent technology,
> with limited geographic applicability.
> 
> In terms of legislation compliance, I believe the UK requirement is to
> provide an equivalent service to the standard online one, not to make the
> standard online one work for everyone.
> 
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