Re: [EXTERNAL] Focus on a new page

You forget that before the form very often instructions are given. Even if not, users might want to make sure, there is no important information.

Maybe someone even landed on the login page by accident.

Am 13.04.2024 um 01:43 schrieb Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>:

As a screen reader user, I hear the page title announced, the label is announced, and the keyboard entry is set to the input field, so all I have to do is type my userID for example.

If I’m a new visitor to a page, then I read around to explore the page, but for future visits I do not have to waste my time doing that.  I type input and go to the next thing (if there is one), etc.

_______
Regards,

Phill Jenkins

From: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com<mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 6:36 PM
To: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com<mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>>; 'Samuel George' <Samuel.George92@hotmail.com<mailto:Samuel.George92@hotmail.com>>
Cc: 'WAI Interest Group discussion list' <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Focus on a new page

Phil wrote: “Default keyboard focus should be on the first intended input entry field or widget for everyone” I am curious to know why? As a screen reader user, I find this intensely irritating especially if forms/focus mode is triggered automatically. 
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
    Report Suspicious  <https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/AdhS1Rd-!9FFbclYzUg9Rf9RzDoTCEVSRCig4GhMQmHwoKYuOOGJUHcA8OKjechwSZqy45luNKziAVtE7LpdivwjtaN-juu1BLhmV$>   ‌
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
Phil wrote: “Default keyboard focus should be on the first intended input entry field or widget for everyone”

I am curious to know why?

As a screen reader user, I find this intensely irritating especially if forms/focus mode is triggered automatically.


From: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com<mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2024 7:42 AM
To: Samuel George <Samuel.George92@hotmail.com<mailto:Samuel.George92@hotmail.com>>
Cc: WAI Interest Group discussion list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Focus on a new page

Please remember that default keyboard focus on a page (or dialog) and screen reader point of regard reading order are two different things.
Default keyboard focus should be on the first intended input entry field or widget for everyone, including manual keyboard (non-mouse users), sighted voice command & control users, and blind screen reader users.  Usually, the UX designer determines which is the best default input entry field or widget. For example, is best practice for default keyboard input focus on the Cancel button, on the userID entry field, or the Next button . . . it depends on the context of the page or dialog.

Navigating with your eyes, point-of-regard via a screen reader, or other AT/user agent feature by heading, by region landmark, by links, by input fields and other interactive widgets are all different things. All users expect to meet their needs by employing approaches that best meet their needs without expecting designers breaking it for them or others.  For example, keyboard operability is broken when the tab key stops on a non-interactive heading or region landmark. Voice command & control is broken when saying “Next” and the input focus lands on a non-interactive heading or doesn’t move to the next logical interactive widget.

You’re correct that 2.4.3 Focus Order is not about “forcing a user focus”, but it is clear when it says that they should: “encounter information in an order that is consistent with the meaning of the content” and that “They benefit from a logical focus order.”. In my opinion, the Understanding SC 2.4.3: Focus Order<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_WCAG22_Understanding_focus-2Dorder&d=DwMFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=uLyhI1ChkEOIb89IBqQPgWawtPo8G95VUXSlUc-_ahq9v294aA9uSOBG9DZp2ImL&s=_opJ0m2yzY3y-GZmvAsnvtPN76taL_TGgkb4QacXJR8&e=> could be improved with editorial changes.

Also see 1.3.2: Meaningful Sequence<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_WCAG22_Understanding_meaningful-2Dsequence&d=DwMFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=uLyhI1ChkEOIb89IBqQPgWawtPo8G95VUXSlUc-_ahq9v294aA9uSOBG9DZp2ImL&s=Z8zXXLRpeBVpDxI7gx1q3C0fGpW0Az2uQrY7SN8JUHE&e=>, which is about a correct reading sequence<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_WCAG22_Understanding_meaningful-2Dsequence-23dfn-2Dcorrect-2Dreading-2Dsequence&d=DwMFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=uLyhI1ChkEOIb89IBqQPgWawtPo8G95VUXSlUc-_ahq9v294aA9uSOBG9DZp2ImL&s=f_CzoTHaOvB3NuXfVTyLsBA9DzWzCDh_xLhEFG617bc&e=> [that] can be programmatically determined<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_WCAG22_Understanding_meaningful-2Dsequence-23dfn-2Dprogrammatically-2Ddetermined&d=DwMFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=uLyhI1ChkEOIb89IBqQPgWawtPo8G95VUXSlUc-_ahq9v294aA9uSOBG9DZp2ImL&s=TIgYuHz1mGL4pYC5WhwNrpr_zahXNpaYk3GfFAXKhtE&e=>.

In my opinion, when the 2.4.3 Focus Order success criteria is not used in concert with others SC’s, that sometimes reading the text and explanations are easy to conflate focus order, reading order, and navigation sequences in the attempt to be level A<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_WCAG22_Understanding_conformance-23levels&d=DwMFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=uLyhI1ChkEOIb89IBqQPgWawtPo8G95VUXSlUc-_ahq9v294aA9uSOBG9DZp2ImL&s=QYxQc7NQG5W_7NBBRGdXEYkQvfoxTAiLT7S4NEbcw2M&e=> and applicable to all content, all technologies, all the time.

_______
Regards,

Phill Jenkins
IBM Accessibility, IBM Design
Equal Access toolkit and accessibility checker, open at ibm.com/able/<https://www.ibm.com/able/>
“Without accessibility, there is no diversity and inclusion for disabled peple”

From: Samuel George <Samuel.George92@hotmail.com<mailto:Samuel.George92@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 6:21 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Focus on a new page

Thank you for your response. I am unable to find anywhere in WCAG 2. 2 Criterion 2. 4. 3 Focus Order, where it states that forcing a users focus into the main content on a new page is a failure, this is the reason I raise the question. The description
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender
You have not previously corresponded with this sender.
    Report Suspicious  <https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/AdhS1Rd-!-BFU_bY-Ui87mls5T8TA0SL5bEZb0FxBfaGL7LVFoV1-e2CgQK4UMV5VZcYMfdcYekpUQJDvvsVVSbG6n0dAh1bHSm35ukzP4ElM6-t2FjEzmGR2DyVnpOnBC2RAZQoZHnFrO2_-SQ$>   ‌
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
Thank you for your response.

I am unable to find anywhere in WCAG 2.2 Criterion 2.4.3 Focus Order, where it states that forcing a users focus into the main content on a new page is a failure, this is the reason I raise the question.
The description is the only aspect that would relate to it, however, I don’t feel that skipping the <header> when arriving on a new page for example, removes operability or meaning in the content, especially when it is in a step by step process and you have already encountered the <header> which has not changed in these subsequent steps.
Kind

Sent from Mail<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__go.microsoft.com_fwlink_-3FLinkId-3D550986&d=DwMF-g&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=0oit2I9gGazzQMGHpA0_zoFiCu-YL2mxF05XTcFwBoQ&m=pbrOdIxHz0IUvZQPOZcXCFgm_J6i8PVhJZLBisDAOAMCvWQimlReZu_uEaShY_2X&s=JcCz-dgQkhfF7g8sQBgyX3yLzkBwtmbdlvSbUf6FMoI&e=> for Windows