RE: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form

No screen readers do what you are postulating. After a page reloads, all screen readers start reading from the top of the page unless the author has done something to change that. Earlier in the thread I suggested a few things, such as JavaScript or the "autofocus" attribute.

You can certainly get that behaviour with single page applications, but it's not because the screen reader is doing anything of its own accord. It's because the author isn't controlling the focus position properly.

Steve


From: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 7:26 PM
To: Jeremy Echols <jechols@uoregon.edu>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form

Thanks Jeremy,

Yes, NVDA making a guess at where to recommence and getting it wrong could indeed be it. However the HTML it skips is quite different from the page before, so the algorithm would have to be doing a bad job if that were the answer. Something that makes me think it might not be the answer is this JAWS finding; if JAWS does it too maybe it's some common coding error

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47332432/jaws-starts-announcing-content-in-the-middle-of-the-page-when-navigating-via-for/77489027

Sorry I can't at present include sample HTML. I may end up creating a vanilla copy of the pages and testing, and if it's still an issue I can add that.

My top hope is that I find I am a "Learner Driver" when it comes to how to use SR software, and some expert will notice and explain more; perhaps some setting common to SRs, or as noted, a common HTML fail that they have encountered before and happen to know the details of.

Where's Sherlock Holmes when you need him?

Thanks again,

Regards,

Alan

. . . . -   . . - - -
Alan Bristow ( he / him / il )
Web Developer / Développeur Web
Elections Canada / Élections Canada
alan.bristow@elections.ca<mailto:alan.bristow@elections.ca>

________________________________
From: Jeremy Echols <jechols@uoregon.edu<mailto:jechols@uoregon.edu>>
Sent: 15 November 2023 14:12
To: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form

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I've noticed NVDA moving focus someplace I didn't expect when following a link on the same site. I always thought I just didn't understand something, but maybe it's being too clever and trying to avoid putting focus above repeated elements on a page when it is able to guess that you're in some kind of multi-page flow? I wonder if there's a setting for this in NVDA itself.



I wonder if it's choosing to just jump past all "navigation" elements, which in some cases are not limited to the top of the page. Or maybe it's trying to find a "main" element and there is none, so it guesses poorly? Is there any way to share a "scrubbed" version of just the raw HTML of the pages in question?



From: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:22
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form



Thank you Steve.



I can't share a link unfortunately, however I can clear up the sing page app (SPA) point. It is not a SPA, each submit submits content to the server and moves the user on to a new URL where a new page is loaded, this happens 4 times (in the journey from p1 to p5).



The autofocus issue is interesting and one I will follow up.



Thank you again for your comment on this strange problem.



Regards,



Alan



. . . . -   . . - - -

Alan Bristow ( he / him / il )

Web Developer / Développeur Web

Elections Canada / Élections Canada

alan.bristow@elections.ca<mailto:alan.bristow@elections.ca>



________________________________

From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>
Sent: 15 November 2023 13:16
To: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form



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This sort of behaviour is not unusual with single-page applications in which the focus position is not being controlled properly. However, it doesn't sound like you have a single page application because it wouldn't work with JavaScript turned off. Or it would revert to the conventional behaviour of reloading the page between pages.



Another possibility is that the "autofocus" attribute is being used to intentionally place the focus somewhere. Or is all the page 2 content hidden with "aria-hidden"? That would give the same behaviour, but you could still access that hidden content by navigating backwards using tab key navigation. Apart from that I can't think of a non-JavaScript reason for the behaviour.



Are you able to share a link?



Steve Green

Managing Director

Test Partners Ltd





From: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 5:17 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Screen reader operation appears strange on multi-page form



If anyone with screen reader (SR) experience knows the answer to the following I would be  most grateful - perhaps this is a misuse of this list, if so my apologies and please ignore.



Scenario



A survey is split over 5 HTML pages. When page 1 has been completed NVDA announces "Next" as I land on a BUTTON element that submits page 1. Activating the button, page 2 loads, and NVDA commences announcing the page content. However, the content it reads appears to consist of the contents of the TITLE tag, followed by what came after the similar spot where it left off on page 1, the content of the FOOTER element. This misses out all the new content that page 2 presented.



Tried with JS turned off. Tried in incognito with no extensions having access. Tried with the mouse pointer nowhere near the page (I usually navigate by keyboard (arrows / tab) when testing with SRs).



I wondered if perhaps each of the five FORM tags, one in each page, needed unique IDs, or something similar, but my research has failed to touch on this initial guess.



Any comments gratefully received.



Regards,



Alan



. . . . -   . . - - -

Alan Bristow ( he / him / il )

Web Developer / Développeur Web

Elections Canada / Élections Canada

alan.bristow@elections.ca<mailto:alan.bristow@elections.ca>