Re: Question about restitution of aria-describedby

Thanks a lot to you both Nick and Marc, your sources are very explicit 
indeed.

Warm Regards,
Armony

Le 17/10/2023 à 12:09, Nick Bromley a écrit :
>
> Take a look at the comment in 4.3.1 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#terminology> under point 2:
>
> “By default, assistive technologies do not relay hidden information, 
> but an author can explicitly override that and include hidden text as 
> part of the accessible name or accessible description by using 
> aria-labelledby or aria-describedby.”
>
> And in this context ‘hidden’ means “that the element is not visible, 
> perceivable, or interactive to any user.”
>
> *From:*Armony ALTINIER - Koena <armony@koena.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 17, 2023 10:57 AM
> *To:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Question about restitution of aria-describedby
>
> Thanks a lot for your answers Marc and Nick.
>
> But I am still confused. I read the Accessible Name and Description 
> Computation, §4.2 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_description> 
> and §4.3 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_te>, and I 
> still don't see anything about the case where the description is 
> properly hidden with aria-describedby or aria-hidden=true.
>
> And when I read the description of aria-hidden attribute in the 
> WAI-ARIA 1.2 doc <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.2/#aria-hidden>, it 
> is clear that the hidden text is not supposed to be exposed to an 
> accessibility API.
>
> Does anyone have a specific doc about this case? It still appears to 
> me as a bad practice to link a description to a text with 
> aria-hidden=true or display:none. But it seems it works, so maybe it 
> is supposed to be working. It just doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Armony
>
> Le 17/10/2023 à 11:08, Marc Haunschild a écrit :
>
>     It also has a strong use case, that hidden text is not announced -
>     so you can switch it by changing the display property value with
>     JavaScript to control which (of several) texts should be read -
>     for example depending on user input - to name just one example.
>     Especially because we have CSS styles to effectively hide texts
>     only visually. For me this is a very inconsistent approach and I
>     really hate it.
>
>     But it is, like it is and that's how we have to use it...
>
>     --
>     Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
>     Marc Haunschild - he / him - #gernPerDu
>     Prüfstelle im BIK-BITV-Prüfverbund
>
>     Marc Haunschild Accessibility Consulting
>     Sonnenhof 32
>     53119 Bonn
>
>     Telefon: 0170 8 64 00 63
>     Web: https://Accessibility.Consulting
>     <https://Accessibility.Consulting> https://mhis.de
>     Email: Marc.Haunschild@Accessibility.Consulting
>
>
>
>         Am 17.10.2023 um 10:43 schrieb Marc Haunschild (Accessibility
>         Consulting) <marc.haunschild@accessibility.consulting>
>         <mailto:marc.haunschild@accessibility.consulting>:
>
>         Hi Armony,
>
>         This behavior is typical for most (all?) screenreaders. I was
>         also surprised when I heard that for the first time.
>
>         I can’t remember which, but I think one SR-browser combination
>         does not read the hidden texts and it’s considered a bug.
>
>         You might want to check the computation of accname if you want
>         to know more about the spec, if you’re not familiar with it.
>         But as far as I remember it is not about hidden text. Maybe
>         this is way sr behave the way they do:
>
>         Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.1
>         <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>
>         w3.org <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>
>          
>
>         <favicon.ico> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>
>         --
>
>         Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
>         Marc Haunschild
>
>         https://Accessibility.Consulting
>         <https://Accessibility.Consulting>
>
>
>
>             Am 17.10.2023 um 10:36 schrieb Armony ALTINIER - Koena
>             <armony@koena.net> <mailto:armony@koena.net>:
>
>             
>
>             Hi everyone,
>
>             I have a question about how aria-describedby is supposed
>             to be rendered or not by screen readers.
>
>             I'm submitting this test file (see attachement) with 3 cases:
>
>              1. text with aria-describedby is linked to non-hidden text
>              2. text with aria-describedby is linked to text hidden
>                 with aria-hidden
>              3. text with aria-descrivbedby is linked with text hidden
>                 with display:none.
>
>
>             In case 1, it is normal for the text to be rendered. It
>             seems strange to me that this also works on cases 2 and 3,
>             whereas it works fine with NVDA.
>
>             Do you have any documentation about this behavior? Is it
>             "normal"? If so, I'm having trouble understanding the
>             logic. If it's not normal, and there are screen reader
>             developers among you, I'd love a little explanation of
>             this choice (I'll go fishing for info elsewhere if need be).
>
>             Many thanks in advance for any insight and documentation :)
>
>             Best Regards,
>             Armony
>
>             -- 
>
>             Portrait Armony Altinier
>             LinkedIn Armony Altinier
>             <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> Twitter
>             Armony Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier>
>
>              
>
>             *Armony Altinier *
>             Fondatrice et Présidente *|*Koena
>
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>
>             <demo-aria-describedby-EN.html>
>
> -- 
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>  
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> Fondatrice et Présidente *|*Koena
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Altinier
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Received on Tuesday, 17 October 2023 15:48:50 UTC