RE: 2.4.7 Focus Visible

I wasn’t just talking about visually impaired users. I was talking about all users, including mouse users, who are probably in the majority in our user testing. No one has ever expressed an opinion about focus indicators, other than that they be made more prominent.

Steve


From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2023 7:47 PM
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
Cc: Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: 2.4.7 Focus Visible

This is also my experience, Steve. I have never met a visually impaired user who tells me that they don't want focus on click. It is a source of great frustration when it isn't there, and when I explain it only occurs through keyboard use now, they get rather frustrated that someone somewhere has decided that visually impaired users have to be able to see and manipulate tiny keyboard controls rather than use a very accessible mouse to highlight the controls they are using on the screen.

It seems to be the most important stakeholders in this, the visually impaired users, need properly consulting.

On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 7:28 PM Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>> wrote:
You might be right, but in hundreds of hours of user testing with disabled and non-disabled participants, no user has ever told me they didn't want focus styles on interactive components. No one even comments on focus styles unless they are missing when needed.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk<mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2023 7:14 PM
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: 2.4.7 Focus Visible



On 10/07/2023 19:10, Steve Green wrote:
> Thanks, now I understand. It's not for the user's benefit at all. It simply creates a means by which developers can remove focus indicators without violating SC 2.4.7. The previous lack of nuance was never a problem except for designers who value their precious aesthetics over the user experience. I'm glad that's sorted because I'm sure we can all agree that the designers and developers are the most important stakeholders.

Bless. You know what? Not all *users* want the focus styles (particularly on immediate action controls) either. Users are nuanced as well in their needs/wants. Imagine that...

Not surprised this devolves back to the usual "darned designers/developers" discussion here though.

P
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Patrick H. Lauke

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