Re: requirements to test with Jaws in different organizations

> If you wish to test for usability with a screen reader, then please go
ahead. I think this is fine. But for WCAG testing?? I am not sure if AT and
testing for standards viability makes sense.

It's true we can tell a lot from DOM inspection and tools, but code quality
alone is not quite enough. For example, a coding technique which relies on
aria-controls or aria-owns could pass all code validators yet fail the WCAG
"accessibility supported" requirement <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#cc4>
because the technique doesn't actually work in currently available
assistive technologies.

Another valid concern is that testers who are new to screen readers often
misunderstand screen reader behaviors, leading to false positives and false
negatives in WCAG criteria such as 1.3.1 and 4.1.3. However, it would be
even more unfair to expect that same person, who has never used a screen
reader, to examine only the code quality of a complex web application and
predict whether it works well enough to meet these criteria.

The answer is a judicious mix of code quality assessment and
functional testing, which in the long run is faster and more accurate than
either method alone.

Mitchell Evan, CPWA
linkedin.com/in/mitchellrevan <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchellrevan>
Twitter @mitchellrevan <https://twitter.com/mitchellrevan>
+49 1525 8950540
+1 510 375 6104


On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 03:58, Rajiv Shah <rmshah@starpower.net> wrote:

> Hi, Even though I am a screen-reader user, I disagree with the approach of
> testing with any specific AT. Why? Because JAWS has so many scripts which
> provide a lot of info on a page that goes beyond WCAG requirements. In
> short, it removes the standardization from the standard. If you wish to
> test for usability with a screen reader, then please go ahead. I think this
> is fine. But for WCAG testing?? I am not sure if AT and testing for
> standards viability makes sense. Thank you. Rajiv
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Annie Heckel <annieh@onlineada.com>
> To: WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 10:55:01 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: requirements to test with Jaws in different organizations
>
> Bryan,
>
> The main reason that I can think of to test with JAWS *as well as* NVDA
> and Voice Over is that JAWS was the most popular screen reader, by far, in WebAIM's most recent
> Screen Reader User survey
> <https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey9/>. It should not add
> significant time to the testing process, in my experience. My team does not
> usually go through the entire website with screen readers, but instead uses
> them for spot checks when there's an odd structure and we're not sure how
> it will work with screen readers, and to create screencasts to illustrate
> issues such as multiple links that have the same accessible text. As Steve
> noted, most WCAG conformance problems can be identified by other means; I
> have found that learning to navigate with a screen reader was most valuable
> for helping me know what problematic code patterns to look for in relation
> to specific kinds of webpage structures.
>
> -Annie
> On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 1:57 AM bryan rasmussen <rasmussen.bryan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> This might be slightly off for the list, but don't know where else to
>>
>> ask that would be good. So I am working on a project for an online
>>
>> education platform that wants to move into the U.S market.
>>
>>
>> The platform would like to limit testing at least part of the
>>
>> development process to nvda and voiceover, to decrease costs /
>>
>> workload, I personally would like to test with -Jaws all the time but
>>
>> often one can't for various reasons. So does anyone have a pattern for
>>
>> how they do periodic testing with Jaws in such a way as to decrease
>>
>> workload). And more importantly if anyone knows of any organizational
>>
>> / governmental regulations requiring testing with Jaws that would
>>
>> affect the educational market in the U.S?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bryan Rasmussen
>>
>>
>
> --
> Annie Heckel
>
> Lead Accessibility Auditor
> Online ADA <https://onlineada.com/>
>