RE: Handling a long description where a 'complex' image appears as a thumbnail link

I’d just add that thumbnails do give the sighted reader an idea of what’s on the page – otherwise you would just have a placeholder page – so there is some value in going to that effort to create a thumbnail – else it would not be done.   Types of things that might be seen from a thumbnail include blank pages, table of contents, presence of a chart, page of text, table, etc.  So they communicate high level features that help people quickly locate pages.  You can’t tell what’s in the table or chart – but that it is present.  That is why I would label the alt text for them in addition to communicating what the link does.

Jonathan

From: Louise Lister <Louise.Lister@iop.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 8:51 AM
To: Peter Weil <peter.weil@wisc.edu>; Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Handling a long description where a 'complex' image appears as a thumbnail link

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Typically, they pictorially represent scientific principles which for the most part are best explained with a few more words than an alt text can provide. At this point (as a thumb) they probably hint at what’s beyond. There are other call to action links on the pages where they operate as thumbnails too. And I want to be consistent in how we treat thumbnails so we don’t end up with a lopsided page- a few with alt texts, a few which don’t.

Thanks for this. I am discovering that rules take you so far, and then it’s a bit of a judgement call.

Kind regards
Louise


From: Peter Weil <peter.weil@wisc.edu<mailto:peter.weil@wisc.edu>>
Sent: 09 March 2021 13:29
To: Bristow, Alan <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>>; Louise Lister <Louise.Lister@iop.org<mailto:Louise.Lister@iop.org>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Handling a long description where a 'complex' image appears as a thumbnail link

I agree about treating the thumbnails as decorative. They might be the same images as those on the destination page, but the context is completely different.

One way I like to think about these types of situations is to ask: what is the purpose of displaying these images on this page? What are you trying to convey with them? If they don't add anything to the content, then their purpose is likely decorative, and they ought to be treated as such.

Peter

--
Peter Weil
Web Developer
University Marketing
University of Wisconsin–Madison
peter.weil@wisc.edu<mailto:peter.weil@wisc.edu>

On 3/9/21, 7:00 AM, "Bristow, Alan" <Alan.Bristow@elections.ca<mailto:Alan.Bristow@elections.ca>> wrote:

​Hi Louise,

It sounds to me like you have this right.

Given 1.3.1 states "Information ... conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text" and, as a thumbnail very little "information can be conveyed through presentation" as the image is too small for visual users to usefully properly understand (I assume), then it seems correct that audio AT users would also not gain information from the image, or its ALT.

Instead, both audiences being able to comprehend the meaning from the CTA text sounds correct. An onus is placed on the writing of that text, but well written text is so important anyway especially when describing something not yet fully visible as it is on another page, so this approach seems to place no additional burden there.

Cheers,

Alan

-Alan Bristow
Web Programmer
Elections Canada
alan.bristow@elections.ca<mailto:alan.bristow@elections.ca>



From: Louise Lister <Louise.Lister@iop.org<mailto:Louise.Lister@iop.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 5:04 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Handling a long description where a 'complex' image appears as a thumbnail link




Hello all,

I would appreciate whether this approach makes sense. We have a small number of images on our website which ideally need a long description. This is fine for the pages they reside on as the dominant large image, but in  some cases, those images are reduced to small thumbnails and blocks of text on other pages, (as a call to action, alongside other CTAs about similar topics) that crosslink to the destination page, where the larger version of the image resides, and where I  would ideally provide a long description.

To me it makes more sense to mark them up as decorative where they appear as thumbnail links elsewhere and add a long description where the image appears in full on the actual page. In nearly all cases it’s nearly impossible for me to add contextual value within alt text limits. In this example,  ‘complex’ images are also being used as an accompaniment to some CTA text.

Has anybody else come up against this, and does this approach make sense? So sorry if this is all obvious to you all, and I appreciate this isn’t a technical question!

With best wishes
Louise




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