- From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 19:46:24 +0000
- To: Chris O'Brien <chrobrien@olg.ca>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
It's important to keep things in perspective and choose the battles you can win. Even if you managed to force through your viewpoint on this issue, it only takes you a little way beyond strict level AA conformance. But you still won't meet almost any of the level AAA success criteria. And then there are all the accessibility issues that are not even addressed by WCAG at all.
Getting your own way on this issue isn't the difference between your website being 99% or 100% accessible. There will still be lots of accessibility barriers for some people. It's just that you have chosen to limit your testing to a level that doesn't reveal them. If you tested for level AAA conformance or did assistive technology testing or did user testing with disabled participants, you would find a whole load more issues.
We find that evidence from user testing is a lot more persuasive than WCAG test results even when they say the same thing, so maybe you can use that approach to bolster your argument. As long as the user testing results actually turn out like you hope and expect.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris O'Brien <chrobrien@olg.ca>
Sent: 02 March 2021 19:33
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: { Sticky Bar } 400% & Keyboard Navigation
I don't disagree with either of you. It's just a hard sell in many cases for stakeholders only interested in compliance only. The subjectivity can be problematic in these cases.
Chris O'Brien
Director of Accessibility
Legal and Litigation
416.224.7769
OLG Internal
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 2:05 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: { Sticky Bar } 400% & Keyboard Navigation
This email originated outside of OLG. Do not open attachments or click links unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
I totally agree with Patrick. To answer the question, you need to decide what's important to you (or whoever's decision it is).
If you only care about strict WCAG conformance, then all that matters is whether any content is completely hidden at 400% zoom.
If you care about the user experience, then you can pick your own percentage cut-off level. There is no "right" answer, but I usually advise our clients to unstick the sticky content when it reaches about 25% of the viewport height.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
Sent: 02 March 2021 16:29
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: { Sticky Bar } 400% & Keyboard Navigation
On 02/03/2021 16:08, Chris O'Brien wrote:
> Question regarding the above: in your opinion what is the threshold?
> This pattern presents significant challenges during reflow, and works
> directly against those who need this accommodation (as you know). I
> find this one particularly frustrating because it is clearly an
> anti-pattern yet is it relegated to advisory status.
One follows from the other really: there's no easy-to-agree-on hard cut-off point where you can say "if it covers X% of the content, this is a fail, otherwise a pass", unless we make up an arbitrary number (which makes little sense, since it would then lack any kind of nuance ... what if something only covers a very tiny amount of content, but THAT particular bit of content is actually really (subjectively) important to the user?
Because it's not a simple binary value that can be agreed on, it's much tougher to make it a hard fail condition. Arguably, when things like this have been decided in the past (say, the cut-off for what is good vs bad color contrast), there's always edge cases where failing/passing just seems very arbitrary...
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
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Received on Tuesday, 2 March 2021 19:46:39 UTC