Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

I haven't read through this thread, so apologies if this has already 
been mentioned, but the March update for Jaws 2020 adds support for 
content marked up using the HTML <del> and <ins> elements [1]. Support 
is in firefox and the Chromium browsers (new Edge, Brave, Yandex etc.) 
though not old Edge or IE.

Jaws uses a different voice to announce the start and end of the deleted 
or inserted text. So for the following example Jaws says "Deletion", 
"this has been deleted", "Deletion end".

<p>In this sentence <del>this text has been deleted</del> but not this 
text.</p>

Similarly, in the following example Jaws announces "Insertion", "this 
text has been inserted", "Insertion end".

<p>In this sentence <ins>this text has been inserted</ins> but this text 
was here already.</p>

It's a very useful addition I think.


Léonie.



[1] 
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS/JAWSWhatsNew#Enhancements



On 17/03/2020 19:28, alands289@gmail.com wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I’m not quite clear on ins and del.
> 
> Are these terms that will be announced for the strikethrough type 
> annotation?
> 
> If so, has it been tested with blind users to see if this properly 
> communicates something that they will understand.
> 
> I have no understanding of what insert and delete mean.
> 
> Alan Smith
> 
> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:28 PM
> *To: *Matt King <mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>; alands289@gmail.com 
> <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>; Phill Jenkins <mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
> *Cc: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; Evan Cordulack 
> <mailto:ecordulack@seattletimes.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> Thanks all for the input and quick action.
> 
> *From: *Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, March 4, 2020 at 10:20 AM
> *To: *"alands289@gmail.com" <alands289@gmail.com>, 'Phill Jenkins' 
> <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, Char Easter <ceaster@seattletimes.com>
> *Cc: *"w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject: *RE: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> Scope of ARIA 1.3 includes new semantics related to annotations, which 
> includes comments on revisions marked up with ins and del elements.
> 
> As part of adding these semantics to ARIA 1.3, we will also draft 
> guidance for the ARIA Authoring Practices and add canonical examples of 
> implementations.
> 
> After the APG Task Force has consensus on the example implementations, 
> we will add screen reader tests for the semantics to the ARIA and 
> Assistive Tehcnology  (aria-at) project.
> 
> So, by end of year, we should have an end-to-end understanding of any 
> gaps in this space and a clear path to full support.
> 
> Side note: testing of implied ARIA semantics in native HTML is on the 
> 2021 roadmap for aria-at. However, ins and del will certainly get 
> covered by the annotations work, which should all happen this year.
> 
> Matt
> 
> *From:* alands289@gmail.com <alands289@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:22 PM
> *To:* Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>; Char Easter 
> <ceaster@seattletimes.com>
> *Cc:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Subject:* Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> Or!
> 
> Generally, we should make our elements communicate to “all”.
> 
> Your points are all good.
> 
> If there is a known limitation then as those that strive to support 
> accessibility it is our job to make things work for screen reader users 
> or any other disability type if there is a know limitation that does 
> have a solution.
> 
> I’m not aware of a JAWS bug for a lack of supporting strike-through or 
> the other styles you mentioned.
> 
> Not everything will be supported by screen readers, so we have to have a 
> method to make it work.
> 
> Also, there are many other screen readers besides JAWS that we must 
> support as well.
> 
> None that I know of announce the strike-through.
> 
> I’ve found a way that works and have communicated it to countless 
> clients and they all seem happy with my suggested fix.
> 
> Its just one of the values of years of experience that we can acquire 
> solutions to problems and share them with others to make them successful.
> 
> For those that use strike-through, once they know a way to make it work, 
> they just add it to their own company design documentation or library 
> and they have a solution that they can use.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alan Smith
> 
> *From: *Phill Jenkins <mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:32 PM
> *To: *alands289@gmail.com <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>; Char Easter 
> <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
> *Cc: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> What?
> generally, we should *not* be hacking things just for screen readers.
> Did anyone ask the screen reader developers if they support 
> strike-through? ask about *super-script*, /sub-script, italics, etc. 
> /while you're asking.
> 
> If it isn't supported by the screen reader, then its a screen reader 
> bug! that needs to be fixed / supported.
> 
> but I believe it is supported via a user setting. For example, See
> JAWS Techniques for Examining Text Formatting 
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoccenter.freedomscientific.com%2Fdoccenter%2Fdoccenter%2Frs25c51746a0cc%2F2012-06-20_textformatting%2F02_textformatting.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cceaster%40seattletimes.com%7Ce60ad63c06864be0a66608d7c068b52e%7Cfc2b8476b7f0473d82fbe0a89fd99855%7C0%7C0%7C637189428258107898&sdata=hN6qkXo753hJrL62j8ibrLUOV88inOpV%2BjIRjpA%2FBxk%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> However, I'm not sure JAWS supports styling like 
> "text-decoration:line-through" because it may not really be a text 
> attribute.
> 
>  From 2005, a thread said:
> Now, with my settings on "attributes", my JAWS is also reading
> "strikethrough".
> If this is not clear, or what you get is not what you expected, please
> consult your help for JAWS.
> ___________
> Regards,
> Phill Jenkins
> 
> 
> Inactive hide details for ---03/03/2020 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a 
> very interesting question. Here is what I do that wor---03/03/2020 
> 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a very interesting question. Here is what I 
> do that works great. On the product
> 
> From: <alands289@gmail.com <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>>
> To: Char Easter <ceaster@seattletimes.com 
> <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org 
> <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
> Date: 03/03/2020 05:08 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Char,
> 
> That is a very interesting question.
> 
> Here is what I do that works great.
> 
> On the product pages with strikethrough text, strikethrough text is not 
> announced by screen readers. Therefore, non-visual users will not have 
> communicated to them that the original price is no longer valid and thus 
> “striked through”. The text will need further coding.
> How is this a problem:
> Non-visual users will not understand what the two different prices mean 
> when the screen reader announces them. This may be during a read all of 
> the page, a virtual read of the text or text announced from a link.
> How to fix:
> Add a span before the strike through amount with the words original 
> price (or equivalent term). Have the span be your supported 
> visuallyhidden class so it does not show on the screen.
> <span class=""visuallyhidden"">Original price</span>
> <span style=""text-decoration: line-through"">$70.00</span>
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Alan Smith
> 
> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>*
> Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:31 PM*
> To: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>*
> Subject: *how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Is there a way a screen reader can read a strikethrough on text so a 
> screen reader user can interpret the meaning/intent?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> *Char Easter*
> UX Designer at The Seattle Times
> p: 206.464.2945
> e: ceaster@seattletimes.com <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
> m: 206.779.2427
> 
> 

-- 
Director @TetraLogical

Received on Tuesday, 17 March 2020 21:21:37 UTC