Re: Alternative text with multiple lines

Hi George,

Thank you very much, because I enjoyed with the reading. My recent interest
in accessibility is a pleasure with this kind of resources. It has a lot of
examples and it's very well explained. Thanks!

Effectively, that work applies to the web as well. If the working group on
accessibility of EPUB is in this discussion list, congrats for this awesome
work!

Here my summary after the reading.

Three types of images:
- Decorative images: empty alternative text + role="presentation"
- Images that can briefly be described: alternative text
- Images that need an extended description.

About images that need an extended description, there are options which
have the lowest impact on the visual layout:
- Near the image: HTML Details Element (check if the scrolling view or the
paginated view behaves correctly when expanded)
- Another place: it's necessary to provide a way to take the user back to
the same location

That extended description will be connected to the image with aria-details
attribute. It's important to consider the use of text hyperlink or image
hyperlink until aria-details attribute is widely supported.

The use of a visually hidden aside is not recommended for universal
accessibility.

Thanks again George! You made me happy!

Best regards,
Raquel

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 at 17:19, George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> The working group on accessibility of EPUB has been doing a lot of work in
> the area of extended descriptions, i.e. long descriptions of images,
> charts, etc. We are trying to identify the best techniques we can recommend
> to publishers. This work applies to the web as well. I suggest you check
> out the following title:
>
>
>
> EPUBTEST 0340 - Extended Descriptions Accessibility Tests:
>
> http://epubtest.org/testsuite/
>
>
>
> We are just starting the user testing with all kinds of browsers and Apps
> and with all kinds of AT.
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> George
>
>
>
> *From:* Raquel <raquel.moreno.carmena@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 14, 2018 10:52 AM
> *To:* Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@levelaccess.com>
> *Cc:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Alternative text with multiple lines
>
>
>
> Thank you very much, David Woolley, I didn't know the object element and
> I'll deepen in it.
>
>
>
> And thanks Jonathan Avila for your point of view. You made me think. We
> cannot only take into account screen readers. Fundamental point. Thanks for
> the remainder.
>
>
>
> I discard the alternative text with multiple lines. I think the best
> option is to add an optional disclosure. I'm going to check that a HTML
> details element below the image is fully accessible.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for your valuable help!
>
> Raquel
>
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 16:44 Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@levelaccess.com
> wrote:
>
> I would recommend not relying on alternative text as the textual
> equivalent of the code and allowing the user to be able to view the source
> as text through an optional disclosure or with color added through CSS as
> the replacement for the image.    Users with low vision will likely want to
> enlarge the text, have it wrap, etc. rather than using then image.  So
> others can benefit from actual text not just screen reader users.
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> Jonathan Avila, CPWA
>
> Chief Accessibility Officer
>
> *Level Access*
>
> jon.avila@levelaccess.com
>
> 703.637.8957 office
>
>
>
> Visit us online:
>
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> *From:* Raquel <raquel.moreno.carmena@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 14, 2018 7:39 AM
> *To:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Subject:* Alternative text with multiple lines
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've met a blind developer who suffers when reading posts which include
> source code within images.
>
> The best solution would be to replace those images by text. According to
> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#images-of-text: "If the technologies being
> used can achieve the visual presentation, text is used to convey
> information rather than images of text". However, he's thinking about an
> option to show that beautiful image with source code in the visual
> rendering and, at the same time, to have the text of the source code only
> visible to assistive technology.
>
> I admire he's looking for that solution, respecting the use of the image,
> in other words, respecting the development behind the functionality of
> getting images with colored and formatted source code.
>
> The problem is having an alternative text with multiple lines.
>
> Please, what do you think about this option?
>
>   <img src="source-code-1.jpg" alt="Source code about ..."
> aria-details="source-code-1">
>   <div id="source-code-1" hidden>
>       /* source code */
>   </div>
>
> However, according to https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-details:
> "Authors SHOULD ensure the element referenced by aria-details is visible to
> all users". This option hides that element.
>
> I found several examples in
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/complex/. However, longdesc seems
> not fully supported and other options don't support multiple lines of
> alternative text.
>
> Another option could be to add a HTML details element below the image,
> which don't interfere too much with the visual aspect, because its content
> is only visible when it's toggled into an "open" state. Furthermore, offers
> the possibility of copying the source code. However, we're thinking about
> not showing another element in the page, in order to offer 2 options (with
> an additional visible element and without an additional visible element)
> and to be a proposal readily accepted for everybody.
>
>
>
> I looked for information in ATAG, thinking about a user who has to add an
> alternative text with multiple lines to an image. However, those guidelines
> refer to WCAG: https://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10/#def-alt-eq
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your time,
> Raquel
>
>