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Re: User Stylesheets are Assistive Technology

From: Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 13:59:13 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJeQ8SBO61462M-Cbb7QMvaBF+J-Lg+Sr_JVO2ce+jnPbEn_Jw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
Cc: W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Nothing actionable today. That's why I am on the IG. I will formulate
something actionable soon.

I am gathering up ideas.


Best Wayne

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:40 AM Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
wrote:

> Is there anything actually actionable you're hoping to get from this
> discussion? It's interesting, but I'm missing the context, or a concrete
> "and for this reason I think we should do X".
>
> P
>
>
> On 19/07/2018 18:19, Wayne Dick wrote:
> > I will now focus on users with low vision.  It is a good example because
> > the scope is simpler than cognitive disabilities, but the solution space
> > is similar.
> >
> > The current model of AT does not work for people who have low vision and
> > cognitive disabilities. We need a personalized user interface. The
> > access we need is like the access given by stylesheets when they work.
> > We need selector level personalization.
> >
> > It is very clear that this cannot be provided by an AT that runs outside
> > of the browser. That would be an extreme breach of security. Right now
> > CSS or browser extensions are the only way to achieve this result. There
> > are difficulties with both of these, but for now that is all there is.
> >
> > Ultimately there needs to be a way to pass style preferences to browsers
> > in a way that uses can get their visual style changes. Until then, CSS
> > and extensions are it.
> >
> > Don't discount a tool that serves subject matter experts with
> > disabilities. We do need to work. Ordinary users with low vision cannot
> > write CSS. Most people who are blind don't write screen readers but they
> > need them. (The NVDA staff is a cool exception)
> >
> > The bottom line is that CSS is one of the only languages that can safely
> > mitigate the accessibility needs of the small group people with low
> > vision who are IT professionals. It keeps many us working.
> >
> > It is extremely scary to live in a world where a basic method of
> > accommodation can be taken away without notice, because nobody
> > understands the extreme value of these tool to our lives. CSS is one.
> > Configurable UI tools are another.
> >
> > Jon's comment on Windows 10 really illustrates the problem. For Jon the
> > change was good. For me it made my 13 inch laptop impractical to use.
> > Personalization is really necessary, but mainstream users think of it as
> > a nice feature, not a necessity. That is why people with fully sight and
> > no print disability can talk so casually about using CSS as an AT. CSS
> > is not ideal, but for many it's infinitely better than nothing, or
> > screen magnification.
> >
> > User stylesheets written to modify visual access are Assistive
> > Technology. "hardware and/or software that acts as auser agent
> > <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#useragentdef>, or along with a
> mainstream
> > user agent, to provide functionality to meet the requirements of users
> > with disabilities that go beyond those offered by mainstream user
> > agents"  WCAG 2.0
> >
> > Best Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 5:28 PM J. Albert Bowden
> > <jalbertbowden@gmail.com <mailto:jalbertbowden@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     "I think a major issue with user stylesheets is that there are no
> stable
> >     CSS-APIs that you could work against."
> >
> >     selectors are about as stable as they come and incredibly effective.
> >     a generic stylesheet may not beat specificity 100% of the time, but
> >     that shouldn't discount it, by any means.
> >     moreover, any style sheet added to the document is going to have to
> >     be scripted in, and even more likely in javascript.
> >     so since we are already using javascript, lets just find the styles
> >     that are not winning the specificity wars and then rewrite the style
> >     at a higher specificity.
> >
> >     we can also use javascript to address frailty/brittleness in
> >     selectivity; offer a nav/modal that appears on activation. read the
> >     dom, present page elements in nav/modal with toggles/options, etc.
> >     there are already a ton of bookmarklets that do most of this, pieces
> >     of this, etc.
> >
> >     i actually think bookmarklets are more ideal here for
> >     cross-browse/rplatforms, most particularly in terms of maintenance;
> >     however, then i think it becomes an issue of user adoption. not many
> >     people know about bookmarklets.
> >
> >     maybe i'm missing something entirely? i am certainly not an a11y
> expert.
> >
> >
> >
> >     On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 7:01 PM, Chaals Nevile <chaals@yandex.ru
> >     <mailto:chaals@yandex.ru>> wrote:
> >
> >         On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 21:40:11 +0200, Tobias Bengfort
> >         <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de <mailto:tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>>
> >         wrote:
> >
> >             I think a major issue with user stylesheets is that there
> >             are no stable
> >             CSS-APIs that you could work against. A user-stylesheet is
> >             basically a
> >             monkey-patch that will break on a regular basis.
> >
> >             In order to get this working reliably we would have to
> >             convince authors
> >             to trat their CSS as a public interface and announce
> >             breaking changes
> >             early on. I am not sure this reasonable.
> >
> >
> >         We would. But in a world of CSS preprocessors and so on, it is
> >         possibly easier than it might seem.
> >
> >         cheers
> >
> >             tobias
> >
> >
> >             On 18/07/18 01:50, Wayne Dick wrote:
> >
> >                 There are lots of people who claim to be accessibility
> >                 experts who
> >                 disregard the value of user stylesheets as a significant
> >                 technology to
> >                 mitigate problems of visual interface. Actually they
> >                 work quite well.
> >
> >                 This technology is used primarily be people who are left
> >                 out of the
> >                 mainstream ATs. They are a way to change colors, ensure
> >                 a personalized
> >                 contrast ration, control column width and many other
> things.
> >
> >                 I use Safari because the browser will host user
> >                 stylesheets. It is too bad
> >                 that other browsers decided to stop supporting this
> >                 important assistive
> >                 technology.
> >
> >                 I think the AG should at least recognize that this is a
> >                 form of assistive
> >                 technology that is available in a technology landscape
> >                 that offers almost
> >                 nothing useful for most people with low vision and
> >                 cognitive disabilities.
> >
> >                 For those who want to tell me how wonderful screen
> >                 magnifiers are if I just
> >                 used them correctly, don't bother. I probably know how
> >                 to use them better
> >                 than you. For my needs, screen magnification scores zero.
> >
> >                 Wayne Dick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >         Chaals: Charles (McCathie) Nevile    find more at
> https://yandex.com
> >         Using Opera's long-abandoned mail client:
> http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >         Is there really still nothing better?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     J. Albert Bowden II
> >
> >     albert@bowdenweb.com <mailto:albert@bowdenweb.com>
> >     jalbertbowden@gmail.com <mailto:jalbertbowden@gmail.com>
> >     https://bowdenweb.com/ <http://bowdenweb.com/>
> >
>
>
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
>
Received on Thursday, 19 July 2018 21:00:18 UTC

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