W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2018

RE: WCAG needs to do this - Any user testing of WCAG 2.1 at CSUN

From: ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:46:50 -0500
Message-ID: <5a9a0c7a.8da6810a.ac0be.f1aa@mx.google.com>
To: Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>
Cc: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Wayne,

All good points.

I’d love to see how this works out.

I’m sure you realize that the majority of those that depend on this work are not technical. 
It is their input and viewpoints that need to be considered to help validate if we are on the right track.

Best.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Wayne Dick
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 6:12 PM
To: ALAN SMITH
Cc: John Foliot; Alastair Campbell; WCAG; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: WCAG needs to do this - Any user testing of WCAG 2.1 at CSUN

Hello All,
Having done a lot of user testing through our Center for Usability Design and Accessibility, I think that planning a test for CSUN at this time would not be productive. It takes real planning to get a decent sample for statistical analysis. We don't need a non-scientific survey from users. Also, there is a real technology gap between us and many end users at CSUN.

Recently I sent a description of the new WCAG additions to the California Citizens with Low Vision (about 90 members). The success criteria are so precise and technical that explaining just one takes a lot of teaching for these end users. It is important to not that members of the CCLV are tech savvy. At CSUN we get end users  with no computer or assistive technology skills, and a lot of them. Reflow is a good example. Explaining 320px instead of a magnification factor is very tricky. I don't believe our support materials are sufficient for end users yet.

I would suggest setting things up with advocacy groups conferences like the annual Meetings of the NFB or ACB. CCLV is a part of ACB. We could set up an afternoon session and a table for testing. 

For low vision the California Group is very active, they meet in October. I sure the COGA people could identify good venus for testing as well. 


On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 5:57 AM, ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:
John,
 
I completely understand the logistics and challenges of setting this up.
 
I’m a tenacious, make it happen leader who is passionate for the disabled.
What discomfort and challenges we may face in assisting them with our work and talents is nothing compared to what many of them experience 24/7 day and night.
 
Here is my executive action plan:
 
1. The Value:
a. This is perhaps the greatest opportunity to have the audience for which WCAG is intended for be able to  - and in person - participate and give input and feedback.
2. The Past:
a. The opportunity to set this up months ago was missed.
3. Now:
a. This is the WCAG, the body that sets up the guidelines and international standards for most of what CSUN topics are based on.
4. The Action:
a. Tell CSUN that: we see great value in this type of effort, we missed the opportunity to plan for it,  how can we get it set up for the sake of the international disabled community.
5. I am able to assist in any way needed.
 
Alan Smith
 
From: John Foliot
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:24 AM
To: ALAN SMITH
Cc: Alastair Campbell; WCAG
Subject: Re: Any user testing of WCAG 2.1 at CSUN
 
​Alan wrote:
 
> The How:
I had not thought about the how. I figured it was something that should have been planned by WCAG.
​
The big problem. Planning for CSUN starts (started) at least 6 months ago, and even as a W3C Working Group we started planning for our Face-to-Face meetings at CSUN back before Christmas. Finding a location to do this kind of user-testing is a bit of a logistics problem, as often spaces in advance of, or post-CSUN are hard to come by, and during the event CSUN tends to take over much if not all of the available space. Setting up a "testing lab" at this short juncture would likely fail, even though it is a good idea.
 
As you noted, there will likely be a number of presentations at CSUN focused on the new SC in WCAG 2.1, and we can still have hallway chats and other social activities to discuss them with end-users in attendance. It would have been a great idea, but we should have started planning for it in October...
 
JF
 
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:59 AM, ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:
Alastair,
 
I appreciate your reply. 
 
The What:
I thought: CSUN is a captive audience and this would be a great way to have WCAG get out into the real world with real users and in person present what is planned and find out if it will actually work for real users with diabilities.
 
The How:
I had not thought about the howt. I figured it was something that should have been planned by WCAG.
 
After I sent this query originally to another email list, I did find  that David MacDonald is doing something like this with a presentation on Wednesday at 9:00 am.
 
Best. 
 
Alan Smith
 
From: Alastair Campbell
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 8:17 AM
To: ALAN SMITH; WCAG
Subject: Re: Any user testing of WCAG 2.1 at CSUN
 
Hi Alan,
 
>  is there any effort to have actual users with disabilities who may be attending CSUN queried on whether the new SCs in WCAG 2.1 will in fact meet the needs of those they are intended for?
 
I suspect that no site will ‘meet the needs’ of everyone, it would be a case of how much does it improve the access & experience for people with particular needs.
 
Therefore there are two possible approaches to this question:
 
1.      Research into what change the success criteria have made to websites, and what difference that makes to people (difficult before sites start updating to meet them).
2.      Demos of what impact the changes based on meeting the success criteria have.
 
The second approach (demos) is a lot easier to do, in revising our site I could probably provide examples for reflow & content-on-hover because those were two new issues that we are changing the site in order to meet the new SC.
 
If you mean are we trying to do the research approach, that’s a lot of prep to find particular sites with issues affected by 2.1-only criteria… it would be easier after sites start trying to meet it.
 
-Alastair
 
 



 
-- 
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com
 
Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
 
Received on Saturday, 3 March 2018 02:46:46 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Saturday, 3 March 2018 02:46:46 UTC