- From: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:02:30 -0600
- To: Mark Weiler <mweiler@alumni.sfu.ca>
- Cc: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <OF6DE16FAC.03AA0966-ON86258221.005ADB3E-86258221.005D9EC0@notes.na.collabserv.c>
| . . . I believe part 2.d addresses Bob's point about poverty levels. . . hmm, not the way I interpret Bob's comments over the years. For example, quoting 2.d The user agent(s) that support the technology are accessibility supported and are available for download or purchase in a way that: does not cost a person with a disability any more than a person without a disability and is as easy to find and obtain for a person with a disability as it is for a person without disabilities. does not address "afordability", but does address equal costs and equal availability. If a $900 laptop, with the latest operating system, browser and AT (such as free NVDA) is equally the same costs and equally available in the English language in the neighboor store - then it is understood to be "accessibility supported". Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bob is talking about how some users with disabilities can't afford the $900 lapttop, so they can't afford to upgrade to the latest ARIA supported technologies for example. The solution is the same cost and same availability to both the user with a disability and the person without disabilities. And while it is equally expensive to both as well, it is equally compliant (or can be) to standards and equally usable to both . WCAG standards do not and should not address affordability in my opinion. Other mechanism do and should address affordability. And, for example, neither does or should ADA standards cover the affordability of an accessible van in defining the number of van accessible parking spots there needs to be in a parking lot, it does not cover the affordability when considering the width and spacing of a van accessible parking spot. And there are considerations in the standards that are "determined" by the AT it self, such as the Van Accessible specs are wider, etc. than regular car accessible spots. Similar to how now ARIA is supported by platforms and assistive technology - so it can be considered in the claim that it is accessibility supported. ___________ Regards, Phill Jenkins Check out the new system for requesting an IBM product Accessibility Conformance Report VPATŪ at able.ibm.com/request pjenkins@us.ibm.com Senior Engineer & Accessibility Executive IBM Research Accessibility linkedin.com/in/philljenkins/ From: Mark Weiler <mweiler@alumni.sfu.ca> To: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> Cc: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Date: 01/26/2018 02:52 AM Subject: Re: Assistive Technology Detection Phil, (Bob) My reading of the WCAG 2.0 documents is that "conformance claims" can involve stating web technologies relied upon but these "conformance claims" are optional. Conformance itself, however, has 5 required parts, with part 4 requiring web content to only rely on accessibly supported content to meet the success criteria ("Only accessibility-supported ways of using technologies are relied upon to satisfy the success criteria.") >From the reference document, it seem that AT's and user agents determine whether something is accessibility supported or not: "a Web content technology is 'accessibility supported' when users' assistive technologies will work with the Web technologies AND when the accessibility features of mainstream technologies will work with the technology" (caps and emphasis in the original). The technical definition of accessibility-supported has two parts and I believe part 2.d addresses Bob's point about poverty levels, as do other parts in the reference document. On Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:42 PM, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> wrote: | how can a site or app know | what web content technologies to serve up | that are accessibly supported | without knowing the user agents and AT the user is using? My understanding is that for a site or app to claim conformance, the claimant has to know or the claim has to state which accessibility supported technologies were relied upon in the conformance testing, not in what the user is using after the conformance testing is done. Of course what users actually use significantly influences what are the definitive list of accessibility supported technologies. There is no requirement to "serve up that technology" to claim conformance. For example, if the operating system and browser platform support high contrast technology, the claim can be made that the site or app conforms (or still conforms) with all the WCAG Success Criteria when the user is relying on those accessibility supported features in the operating system and browser platform. The site or app conformance would fail if the 1.3.1 Info and relationship success criteria fails because some labels or headings "disappeared" when turning on the high contrast accessibility features supported in the OS & Browser. ___________ Regards, Phill Jenkins pjenkins@us.ibm.com Senior Engineer & Accessibility Executive IBM Research Accessibility linkedin.com/in/philljenkins/ From: Mark Weiler <mweiler@alumni.sfu.ca> To: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Date: 01/25/2018 06:52 PM Subject: Re: Assistive Technology Detection Related to AT detection is how can a site or app know what web content technologies to serve up that are accessibly supported without knowing the user agents and AT the user is using? Accessibility supported is a requirement for conformance. And research findingsshow differences in how browsers and ATs are supporting web content technologies. On Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:08 PM, David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk> wrote: The dangers I see are: 1) this will reinforce the idea that the only disabled people are those that use JAWs. 2) it will probably have a similar effect to early mobile web sites, which tended to be cleaner, and easier to use that the main web site. That may mean that the main web site gets more difficult to use, and you won't be able to do the equivalent of using wap instead of www. On 25/01/18 19:18, accessys@smart.netwrote: > > counter to concept of accessibility, one should not need to identify > and personally I would be ,opposed to it.
Received on Friday, 26 January 2018 17:07:13 UTC