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Re: Electron accessibility

From: Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@acm.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 22:05:54 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOWJxhWTXRA519M0sHVJc18WcXLAC4rmr9OWtNCL+THkfCpfqw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Sean Murphy (seanmmur)" <seanmmur@cisco.com>
Cc: "tink@tink.uk" <tink@tink.uk>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Yes, once the electron app is packaged, external testers effectively don't
have access to the underlying HTML/Javascript code. Doesn't mean you can't
do testing. This obviously places the burden on the application developer
to design their code for accessibility and test ahead of packaging. For
organizations building electron apps that take accessibility seriously, the
testing gets done throughout the development cycle (which is what my team
spends a lot of their time doing).   BTW, there are accessibility audit
capabilities for Electron developers [1].

Mark


[1] https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/accessibility

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
> In relation to accessibility testing for electron. If you get the
> application, there is no means of accessing the actual code. Thus you
> cannot verify possible errors by examining the underlying code. Using
> Accessibility Probe, or simular tools give you some information. You cannot
> use any automation tools either, unless you have access to the source. Thus
> it is a difficult environment to test for accessibility.
>
>
> Sean Murphy
> ENGINEER.CUSTOMER SUPPORT
> seanmmur@cisco.com
> Tel: +61 2 8446 7751
>
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
> The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
> ST LEONARDS
> 2065
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>
> Think before you print.
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Léonie Watson [mailto:tink@tink.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2018 5:35 AM
> To: Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@acm.org>
> Cc: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Electron accessibility
>
> Thanks Mark. That's useful information. I've been talking with someone
> at MS about VSCode, but was just hunting for additional information to
> try and get my bearings.
>
> Léonie.
> On 19/01/2018 23:55, Markku Hakkinen wrote:
> > Hi Leonie,
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 6:07 PM, Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk
> > <mailto:tink@tink.uk>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 15/01/2018 01:42, Markku Hakkinen wrote:
> >
> >         Electron is a wrapper around the Chrome (Chromium) browser.  The
> >         accessibility support native to the version of Chromium used to
> >         build Electron is what is exposed.   Cautionary note is that
> >         Electron releases typically lag several releases behind the
> >         current Chrome release, meaning bugs fixed in newer releases of
> >         Chrome will not be present in the “current” Electron release.
> >
> >
> >     It seems from what you've said, that Electron can be accessible -
> >     with the caveat that there may be some lag before issues are
> >     resolved there. Does that mean Electron in and of itself is capable
> >     of a reasonable degree of accessibility?
> >
> >
> > I am personally aware of, designed for, and tested accessible
> > applications built on Electron, and hence well aware of the lag issues.
> > Also, I need to add that our electron-based applications are currently
> > executing under Windows.  We have not yet tested on other platforms
> > (e.g., MacOS) so YMMV on other platforms.  With the caveat of Windows,
> > and coding the web application accessibly, then, yes, Electron is
> > capable of accessible applications in that Google Chrome allows for same.
> >
> >
> >     I ask because I'm trying (and failing) to find a screen reader
> >     accessible code editor. Atom and VS Code are both Electron based,
> >     and neither seems usefully accessible. Much the same seems to be
> >     true of Slack, another Electron based tool I'd very much like to be
> >     usable with a screen reader.
> >
> >
> > I would have to suggest that VS Code has failings in implementation. I
> > wouldn't point my finger at Electron, directly, without testing.
> >
> >
> >     As an aside, I know VS Code has an accessibility mode, but when it's
> >     enabled you lose basic features like word wrapping and line
> >     numbering, and I can't write code without those two basic features!
> >
> >
> > Yes, they have that mode.  Perhaps this is best pursued with the VS Code
> > support group?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >     Léonie.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         Mark
> >
> >         On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 7:13 PM Sean Murphy (seanmmur)
> >         <seanmmur@cisco.com <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
> >         <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >              All,____
> >
> >              __ __
> >
> >         https://electronjs.org/ ____
> >
> >              __ __
> >
> >              I am starting to see more and more applications built using
> >         this
> >              framework. Anyone know if any work has been do for
> >         accessibility? ____
> >
> >              __ __
> >
> >         https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/m/en_us/signaturetool/images/
> banners/standard/08_standard_graphic.png____
> >         <https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/m/en_us/signaturetool/images/
> banners/standard/08_standard_graphic.png____>
> >
> >
> >
> >              *Sean Murphy*____
> >
> >              ENGINEER.CUSTOMER SUPPORT____
> >
> >         seanmmur@cisco.com <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
> >         <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com <mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>>____
> >
> >              Tel: *+61 2 8446 7751 <tel:%2B61%202%208446%207751>*____
> >
> >              ____
> >
> >              __ __
> >
> >              ____
> >
> >              ____
> >
> >
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>
> >
> >              Cisco Systems, Inc.____
> >
> >              The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>____
> >
> >              ST LEONARDS
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
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> >
> >              2065
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
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> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>____
> >
> >              Australia
> >
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g
> >         <https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway%0D+ST+
> LEONARDS%0D+2065%0D+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>>____
> >
> >         cisco.com <http://cisco.com> <http://cisco.com>____
> >
> >         http://www.cisco.com/assets/swa/img/thinkbeforeyouprint.gif____
> >         <http://www.cisco.com/assets/swa/img/thinkbeforeyouprint.gif____
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              Think before you print.____
> >
> >              This email may contain confidential and privileged material
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> >              disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
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> >              please contact the sender by reply email and delete all
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> >
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> >
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> >              __ __
> >
> >              __ __
> >
> >         --
> >         Sent from iPad
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem
> >
> >
>
> --
> @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem
>
Received on Monday, 22 January 2018 03:06:33 UTC

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