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RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The Accessibility Interpretation Problem

From: Russell, Jon (CTR) <jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 12:46:14 +0000
To: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
CC: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C65F75FEDF2C4E4F912E39DFE5049F1A0FDC48C2@D2ASEPREA017>
<<google docs as common ground>>

For future reference, what would be a more superior common ground, other than google docs, for posting accessibility documents, to mitigate the current accessibility issue?

Thanks,

Jon Russell
Software Tester
Section 508 Trusted Tester Certified 301122
DHS NPPD IP IICD Test & Evaluation (T&E)
1310 North Courthouse Road 04 – 306 – Arlington VA
Desk:  703-235-9306
Mobile:  202-744-8333
jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:43 PM
To: Russell, Jon (CTR) <jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov>
Cc: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>; Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The Accessibility Interpretation Problem

well google is yes, you can search it even in html, no account required.
However google services like documents and hangouts etc., are not  the same as google so to speak.  More doors to dance through, which is why personally there should be  more than one path to information.
I respect their motive, after all it is easy to feel everyone uses a computer as they might.  Still the P in pc stands for personal.
Cheers,
Kare



On Tue, 15 May 2018, Russell, Jon (CTR) wrote:

> Good point.
>
> I'm pretty sure WIlco Fiers & Glenda Sims were seeking common ground  when posting on google docs  --  since google is pretty universal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon Russell
> Software Tester
> Section 508 Trusted Tester Certified 301122 DHS NPPD IP IICD Test & 
> Evaluation (T&E)
> 1310 North Courthouse Road 04 – 306 – Arlington VA
> Desk:  703-235-9306
> Mobile:  202-744-8333
> jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:30 PM
> To: Russell, Jon (CTR) <jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov>
> Cc: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>; Felix Miata 
> <mrmazda@earthlink.net>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The Accessibility 
> Interpretation Problem
>
> Oh brilliantly said!
> I wonder, if part of the feeling mad comes  from the situation, that in so
> many   ways access begins and ends with the individual, but those in
> policy  seats feel they must project in a general way?
> Personally I feel the more common ground  one seeks, and I mean communicating from common frames of reference, perhaps the greater progress....but that is me.
> Speaking for myself I fail to understand how generalizations, the assumption that all those sharing a label are interchangeable in how they access technology serves the greater society if that makes sense.
> You are not living that individuals experience, but you likely share a frame of reference that might lead to a more positive outcome.
> "you may say that I'm a dreamer.."
> John Lenon
> Kare
>
>
>
> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Russell, Jon (CTR) wrote:
>
>> I think Mr. Urban hit the nail on the head -- even when making documents accessible on the web:
>>
>> ***** No matter what I answer, the result is  “A good compromise 
>> leaves everyone mad”*. *****
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Good morning!
>>
>> I had to comment on this work.  This is, I hope, a start to a very important discussion in the community: that there are more than just levels of conformance, there are levels of strictness that are driven by the competing interests of those of us that use WCAG.
>>
>> I find myself, as a Chief Accessibility Officer, often in the midst of these wars.  Developers often speak of buglists, advocates speak of equal access, lawyers speak of liability, and researchers speak of best practice.  And they come to my door to have me decide “what’s the line?”.  No matter what I answer, the result is  “A good compromise leaves everyone mad”*.
>>
>> We need to stop being mad about the fact that life is imperfect, and that there are tradeoffs.  The key is to identify the principle of accessibility, hold to that, and recognize that success means different things to different people and different organizations, and that’s OK.  Advocates SHOULD push for functional accessibility, developers SHOULD question the implementation, project managers SHOULD talk about level of effort, lawyers SHOULD put concerns about liability on the table.  We all have something to add, to help this thing called accessibility improve every day.
>>
>> Again, well done, to start the conversation.  Cheers for helping mark out the common ground.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark D. Urban
>> CDC/ATSDR Section 508 Coordinator
>> Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) Office of the Chief 
>> Operating Officer (OCOO) Murban@CDC.gov | 919-541-0562 office
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Jon Russell
>> Software Tester
>> Section 508 Trusted Tester Certified 301122 DHS NPPD IP IICD Test & 
>> Evaluation (T&E)
>> 1310 North Courthouse Road 04 – 306 – Arlington VA
>> Desk:  703-235-9306
>> Mobile:  202-744-8333
>> jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:15 PM
>> To: Russell, Jon (CTR) <jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov>
>> Cc: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>; Felix Miata 
>> <mrmazda@earthlink.net>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The 
>> Accessibility Interpretation Problem
>>
>> Well, speaking for myself, the link below took me to a page where google informed me it was my account, but no way to read the document.
>> Question? If one wishes to educate individuals who may be using a variety
>> of   methods to reach  information, why use one that  requires layers to
>> access?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Russell, Jon (CTR) wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed they did.
>>>
>>> The authors WIlco Fiers & Glenda Sims provide an online web link to the white paper.
>>>
>>> Not sure what this comment is coming from in regard to the white paper not being available as a web document:
>>>
>>> "Seriously?!?! Why the resistance to providing a document about web documents in traditional web document format?"
>>>
>>> Read the White Paper:   "A11Y Wars: The Accessibility Interpretation Problem" >>>  http://bit.ly/a11ypeace
>>>
>>> -- WIlco Fiers & Glenda Sims
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jon Russell
>>> Software Tester
>>> Section 508 Trusted Tester Certified 301122 DHS NPPD IP IICD Test & 
>>> Evaluation (T&E)
>>> 1310 North Courthouse Road 04 – 306 – Arlington VA
>>> Desk:  703-235-9306
>>> Mobile:  202-744-8333
>>> jon.russell@associates.hq.dhs.gov
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:06 PM
>>> To: Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The 
>>> Accessibility Interpretation Problem
>>>
>>> I apologize.  I probably should have worded my original e-mail 
>>> differently.  Personally I think that the document is already being 
>>> made available in a format usable on the web.  The problem I ran 
>>> into is that my company restricts our access to some sites (like 
>>> Google
>>> Docs.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Tim
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Felix Miata [mailto:mrmazda@earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 12:29 PM
>>> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [White paper] A11Y Wars: The Accessibility 
>>> Interpretation Problem
>>>
>>> Glenda Sims composed on 2018-05-15 11:43 (UTC-0500):
>>>
>>>> Tim Harshbarger wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Would it be possible for you also to share this document in some 
>>>>> other format or location—like a web site?  I am interested in 
>>>>> reading the document, but our company does not allow us to access Google Docs.
>>>
>>> + + +
>>>
>>>> I'd be delighted to send you a copy of the white paper as a word document.
>>>> In fact...it should be in your inbox right now.
>>>
>>> Seriously?!?! Why the resistance to providing a document about web documents in traditional web document format?
>>> --
>>> "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get 
>>> wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
>>>
>>> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>>>
>>> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 16 May 2018 12:47:18 UTC

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