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Re: non-landmark forms

From: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 18:03:54 -0400
Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>, Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk>, Taliesin Smith <talilief@gmail.com>, Tobias Bengfort <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>, WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-Id: <E04B2511-4E6A-485B-B5C0-0BEF730FCC4E@gmail.com>
To: Userite <richard@userite.com>

The form role has the same native host language semantics as <form>. In reality, for 1.2 the web community has asked for us to reach role parity with HTML. Due to native host language semantics you don’t need role=“form” on a form element. If HTML has a native element that has the that native host language semantics you should use it and not use the ARIA role. 

At this point, if your screen reader is not good with ARIA It is really not ARIA’s fault. Your comment on “one of my screen readers is not good with aria” is very vague. That is like saying your engine is broke. :-) 

It may be that your screen reader is also experiencing accessibility api browser mapping errors. 

Rich Schwerdtfeger

> On Aug 5, 2017, at 5:19 AM, Userite <richard@userite.com> wrote:
> My understanding of ARIA is that it **adds** accessibility but it does not replace the existing HTML accessibility features such as <form name-"Contact Form" Action-"xxxxx.....>
> One of my screen readers is not good with aria!!!!
> Richard
> Richard Warren
> Userite
> http://www.userite.com <http://www.userite.com/>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Garaventa
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 5:05 PM
> To: tink@tink.uk ; Taliesin Smith
> Cc: Tobias Bengfort ; WAI IG ; ARIA Working Group
> Subject: RE: non-landmark forms
> UAIG is the old name for the User Agent Implementation Guide.
> I'm confused, because you didn't raise any concerns about this during the discussion when it was proposed last year, and you did participate in the thread.
> Reference: http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=7419
> This was discussed in the meeting minutes at
> http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-minutes.html#item05
> I'm CCing the ARIA WG mail list here too because there appears to be some confusion about this that we need to discuss there.
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> Level Access, Inc.
> Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.LevelAccess.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Léonie Watson [mailto:tink@tink.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:20 AM
> To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>; Taliesin Smith <talilief@gmail.com>
> Cc: Tobias Bengfort <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: non-landmark forms
> On 02/08/2017 18:44, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
> > " It is worth mentioning that using <form aria-label="This form"> or <form aria-labellledby="that"> will not give the form an accessible name either."
> >
> > Hi Leonie, I agree this doesn't do so now, but this was decided about six months ago in the UAIG meetings with Rich, Jonie, and Joseph for this to be true.
> Thanks Bryan. What is the UA IG?
> --
> @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe tink.uk Carpe diem
Received on Saturday, 5 August 2017 22:04:22 UTC

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