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Re: WCAG 2.4.6 query in relation to headers within frames.

From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:21:59 -0400
Message-ID: <CAAdDpDYdM4wxKZz8Ka_a+KyhEOKHd9n3ZVSWiJkR4k1aBBOstg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Sean Murphy (seanmmur)" <seanmmur@cisco.com>
Cc: "davebest@cogeco.ca" <davebest@cogeco.ca>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, Userite <richard@userite.com>, Herin Hentry <herinhentry@gmail.com>, w3c WAI List <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> The WCAG success criteria requires a properly structured Header hierarchy
on a web page,

WCAG doesn't require properly nested heading although it is a best practice
recommendation. We had many deep discussions about whether to require this
or not, and there would good reasons not to require them.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

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On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
>
>
> Thanks for this. iFrames is clear enough if the content is outside of the
> developers control. I am going to have to review the requirement again and
> the provided info as there is different point’s of view which makes things
> confusing.
>
>
>
> I do agree there is a difference between usability and accessibility. AS
> each heading 1 is the start of a new section with a different report. You
> could regard the new report as a new chapter of a book rather then being a
> sub-section of the chapter. Using multiple h1 in this situations is fine.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/m/en_us/signaturetool/images/banners/standard/08_standard_graphic.png]
>
> *Sean Murphy*
>
> ENGINEER.CUSTOMER SUPPORT
>
> seanmmur@cisco.com
>
> Tel: *+61 2 8446 7751 <+61%202%208446%207751>*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
>
> The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
>
> ST LEONARDS
>
> 2065
>
> Australia
>
> cisco.com
>
> [image: http://www.cisco.com/assets/swa/img/thinkbeforeyouprint.gif]
>
> Think before you print.
>
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>
>
> *From:* David Best [mailto:davebest@cogeco.ca]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 June 2017 5:41 AM
> *To:* 'Andrew Kirkpatrick' <akirkpat@adobe.com>; 'Userite' <
> richard@userite.com>; 'Herin Hentry' <herinhentry@gmail.com>; Sean Murphy
> (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* 'w3c WAI List' <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: WCAG 2.4.6 query in relation to headers within frames.
>
>
>
> As a screen reader user, I disagree with the mandate of only one h1 header
> on a web page. There is a fine line between WCAG success criteria and user
> preference. Using multiple h1 elements on a single page is a designer/user
> preference and not a WCAG criteria. At one time this was a best practice
> preference, but with the advancement of ARIA it is no longer preferred.
>
>
>
> The WCAG success criteria requires a properly structured Header hierarchy
> on a web page, but this can be a challenge with iframes and other dynamic
> widgets. Using a clearly defined Landmark region layout with Header
> structure for content context, can help to avoid some of the Heading
> structure challenges. One best practice might be to enclose the iframe in a
> Region that can be expanded/collapsed, to give the user more control over
> the amount of information displayed and remove some Headers that may cause
> confusion.
>
>
>
> Richard, sorry, but headings are not mandatory for web pages, but when
> used they must be implemented according to the WCAG criteria. This is the
> difference between accessibility conformance and user design preference.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com>]
>
> *Sent:* June 26, 2017 01:53 PM
> *To:* Userite; Herin Hentry; Sean Murphy (seanmmur)
> *Cc:* w3c WAI List
> *Subject:* Re: WCAG 2.4.6 query in relation to headers within frames.
>
>
>
> Richard,
>
> To clarify, WCAG 2.0 does not require that a web page have headings, only
> that if there are elements on the page that serve as headings that they
> have the correct semantic structure associated with them.
>
>
>
> Related to the number of H1 headings, if a web page has 5 headings and 5
> paragraphs, and the headings are all the same weight or level then it
> wouldn’t be incorrect to make them all H1’s. You could argue that there
> should be an H1 heading before the first of the 5 headings (which should
> then be H2’s) but that isn’t required by WCAG 2.0 AA, and this is debatable
> even for 2.4.10 in AAA. I do agree that doing so would be a best practice
> for the usability of the content, but it isn’t required for WCAG 2.0 AA.
>
>
>
> The iframe question is a hard one, especially since the content in those
> iframes may not be under the author’s direct control. I would prefer to
> have the page viewed as a “flattened”version, so the headings from each
> iframe would fall into the right level in order to make the page overall
> make the most sense.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
>
>
> *From: *Userite <richard@userite.com>
> *Date: *Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:55
> *To: *Herin Hentry <herinhentry@gmail.com>, "Sean Murphy (seanmmur)" <
> seanmmur@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *WAI-IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: WCAG 2.4.6 query in relation to headers within frames.
> *Resent-From: *WAI-IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:56
>
>
>
> Hi Herin and Sean,
>
>
>
> Each HTML document should only have one top level heading (heading 1) in
> the same way that it only has one title in the head section. The purpose of
> the top level heading is to tell the user what the *page* is about
> overall.  As the user arrives at the page (especially blind users) this
> heading is important because it tells them what the PAGE is about and, if
> that is not of interest then the user can quickly return to something else
> without having to waste time searching the page.  If the page contains a
> series of articles then this top level heading might say “Series of
> articles about xxx” with each article starting with a level 2 heading.
>
>
>
> Headings, and other semantic elements, are vital for assistive technology
> to understand the page and to present it in a meaningful way to the user.
>
>
>
> I am sorry, but headings are mandatory for web pages.
>
>
>
> With regard to Sean’s initial enquiry regarding iframes then yes each
> iframe *might* have a level 1 heading because each iframe loads a different
> document which may be used elsewhere where a H1 is required. The initial
> page must also have a top level heading that covers the purpose of the
> various documents being loaded via the iframes.
>
>
>
> HOWEVER please note that frames are terrible for accessibility and need to
> be used with care. Make sure you use the iframe title attribute. Also do
> not lock keyboard users inside an iframe !!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Richard
>
> Technical Manager
>
> www.userite.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.userite.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C684ce1481f09412e718708d4bcb50a78%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636340933145717692&sdata=E3uGERsnd%2F89UKGL1cOTtJjpYvJGq01V3yDLCk8rQLs%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Herin Hentry <herinhentry@gmail.com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 26, 2017 1:24 PM
>
> *To:* Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
>
> *Cc:* w3c WAI List <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>
> *Subject:* Re: WCAG 2.4.6 query in relation to headers within frames.
>
>
>
> Hi Sean,
>
>
>
> My understanding is - Headings are not mandatory requirements for WCAG. If
> headings are present they should convey the structure of content in the
> page. WCAG does not prohibit using multiple H1s. I personally do not prefer
> multiple H1s. But, if any page needs multiple headings, & as long as the
> Outline of the page clearly conveys the information and relationship, it's
> not a failure.
>
>
>
> If there are multiple articles displayed on the same page and each has
> it's own heading and importance, multiple H1should be fine.
>
>
>
> Also an interesting read I found here
>
> https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/the-truth-about-
> multiple-h1-tags-in-the-html5-era--webdesign-16824
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebdesign.tutsplus.com%2Farticles%2Fthe-truth-about-multiple-h1-tags-in-the-html5-era--webdesign-16824&data=02%7C01%7C%7C684ce1481f09412e718708d4bcb50a78%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636340933145717692&sdata=TvnmCtpe5aU2XGMrV6PbWpHbZlxYcNrVKiXg%2Fawxncw%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Would like to know others interpretation of 2.4.6 as well.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Herin
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <
> seanmmur@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> In relation to 2.4.6, if the page has multiple iFrames. Is the heading
> order specific to the iFrame or the whole page regardless of the iFrames?
> For example:
>
>
>
> Main page
>
> … some elements …
>
> ** Iframe1 ***
>
> Heading 1
>
> *** iframe ends
>
> ** Iframe2 ***
>
> Heading 1
>
> *** iframe ends
>
> ** Iframe3 ***
>
> Heading 1
>
> *** iframe ends
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/m/en_us/signaturetool/images/banners/standard/08_standard_graphic.png]
>
> *Sean Murphy*
>
> ENGINEER.CUSTOMER SUPPORT
>
> seanmmur@cisco.com
>
> Tel: *+61 2 8446 7751 <+61%202%208446%207751>*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
>
> The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
>
> ST LEONARDS
>
> 2065
>
> Australia
>
> cisco.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcisco.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C684ce1481f09412e718708d4bcb50a78%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636340933145717692&sdata=fD%2Ftw11%2BjimJOrcuQrh7vQLybHG%2F6hStgHflVONg3%2FE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> [image: http://www.cisco.com/assets/swa/img/thinkbeforeyouprint.gif]
>
> Think before you print.
>
> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole
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Received on Thursday, 20 July 2017 01:22:25 UTC

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