Re: example of accessible captcha?

Hi Andrew,
I appreciate and respect your providing this information.
May I ask a question?
Based on say your personal professional experience how likely is it that a 
small business owner creating an international e-commerce website that may 
possibly reach millions, will automatically understand this need on their 
own?
The incident  leading to my starting this thread involved, not a small 
business owner, but a very very large Canadian company.
Said company used recaptcha to create their verification,  and it did not 
even manifest in their brain cells that an alternative was 
possible, let alone required.
Now, if there was a point  in installing recaptcha  that the user reached 
a message like this.
"warning! failure to provide an alternative captcha other than the visual 
one  chosen may result in  human rights violations in your jurisdiction, 
or 
may be just unfriendly!  do you wish to proceed?"
Then I would feel the wording of 2.0 was enough...but it is possible to 
use the program without learning about alternative captcha formats.
Therein may be the true issue.
In the best of all possible universes,  automatically respecting the 
diverse ways to use a computer regardless of body uniqueness would flow 
effortlessly.  We are not there yet.
So, why is it not the default to create alternatives to visual captchas in 
programs that produce them?
Dancing outside of the box...as usual,
Kare


On Wed, 1 Feb 2017, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:

> It bears pointing out that WCAG 2.0 allows CAPTCHA, but requires accessible CAPTCHA.
>
> It seems that some people think that CAPTCHA is always an image-based test, but that is not the case, it is any method that is used to distinguish between an computer and a human.
>
> The only reason that CAPTCHA was called out in WCAG 2.0 was that it would cause a failure if there was an image on a web page that didn’t have an equivalent alternative, and that would defeat the purpose of the CAPTCHA image. If you do use an image-based CAPTCHA WCAG 2.0 just requires that you provide alternative CAPTCHA methods for accessibility purposes, which is just like if you need to provide an alternative to other types of inaccessible content.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
> Adobe
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
>
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> On 1/31/17, 20:14, "Gian Wild" <gian@accessibilityoz.com> wrote:
>
>> You might be interested in these articles:
>> CAPTCHA: Inaccessible to Everyone: http://www.sitepoint.com/captcha-inaccessible-to-everyone/
>>
>> CAPTCHA: How to do it right (ie. don't use CAPTCHA!): http://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140831232143-25659818-captcha-how-to-do-it-right-ie-don-t-use-captcha
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karen Lewellen [mailto:klewellen@shellworld.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017 11:59 AM
>> To: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
>> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: example of accessible captcha?
>>
>> Well, at the risk of singing the same song again, a shared label does not a shared experience make.
>> That you do not find an task difficult is absolutely fantastic...for you.
>> It does not mean everyone within the same well label has your tools your situations, or choices.
>> I was frankly stunned that assurance could get away with such a clear problem. I Mean what if the person has another reading  challenge?
>> Kicking them out because they cannot read when providing phones that have no access at all is a tad much.
>> Kare
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting, point in relation to text messages. AS I have vision loss myself, I didn't find it difficult.
>>>
>>> As there are more and more organisations using this as part of their security mechanism. One example that comes to mind is two step authentication. I suspect the challenge the example you provided is related to the assistive technology they had available on the mobile device. If the technology doesn't permit them to read text messages easily, then the solution will break for that group of users. Thus isn't full proof.
>>>
>>> The other ideas promoted I need to check out. As this is really a pain point for accessibility and disable users.
>>>
>>> Sean Murphy
>>> Accessibility Software engineer
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Karen Lewellen [mailto:klewellen@shellworld.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017 10:28 AM
>>> To: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
>>> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>> Subject: RE: example of accessible captcha?
>>>
>>> Hi sean,
>>> I personally dislike the text message idea for two reasons.
>>> first, you must provide your cell number, which if the site in question becomes compromised  creates issues.
>>> second and most important though that method assumes that both a phone  is available, and a phone with easy to access text messaging.
>>> I knew someone experiencing sight loss who got kicked out of the low cost American cell phone  program because their provider called assurance wireless  used  text messages to contact members.  The phone provided in the program had no accessible features so...they lost their service because they could not  read the screen.
>>> I believe Google is behind recaptcha.  If they no longer encourage the visual captcha, then recaptcha should not create as much.
>>> I agree totally with you about the audio editions of the challenges for many reasons.  those are a poor solution  in my experiences as well.
>>> Kare
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Karen,
>>>>
>>>> I like the concept of sites which use text messages that appear on your phone. Then you enter in the number they provide as the challenge.
>>>>
>>>> Audio caption solutions in my book are a negative experience because if you cannot understand the audio output. Then you cannot complete the form. As most audio challenges are distorted audio in the first place. I and quite a lot of others find this method of authentication very poor. This is of course to address the vision impairment community who cannot se the challenge graphic.
>>>>
>>>> There was an article I read ages ago where I think google had
>>>> developed a method of not requiring the graphical challenge at all
>>>> and used a completely different method. I went looking for the
>>>> article and cannot find it. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Sean Murphy
>>>> Accessibility Software engineer
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Karen Lewellen [mailto:klewellen@shellworld.net]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017 6:12 AM
>>>> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>>> Subject: example of accessible captcha?
>>>>
>>>> Greetings all,
>>>> I seek a site that uses a captcha which does not involve an image.  by which I mean one using a math problem, or some other  interaction that differs from the letter number things often used.
>>>> Ideas?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Karen
>>>>
>>>>
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