- From: Karl Groves <karl@karlgroves.com>
- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 17:24:44 -0500
- To: Shadi Abou-Zahra <shadi@w3.org>
- Cc: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Very good to hear about those efforts, Shadi. Also, I agree 100% with the challenges you cite on automated testing. For instance, claiming a tool has 100% coverage with even 1.1.1 is impossible. There are many automated checks which can look for conformance against 1.1.1 but the ultimate judgment of a text alternative is whether it accurately represents the non-text content in context of use. That doesn't reduce the usefulness of automation but does create considerable challenges when creating the type of matrix described by Phill. :-( On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Shadi Abou-Zahra <shadi@w3.org> wrote: > Hi Phil, > > Thank you for this input -- very useful thoughts. > > Indeed, the WAI Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG) has > looked at several approaches in the past but it turned out to be not that > trivial. For example, what does it mean when we say evaluation tool X > addresses Success Criteria Y? Some tools will check the code to identify > whether a particular Success Criteria is applicable, others might then do > partial checks on the corresponding code (with varying degrees of > conclusiveness), and yet others might just automatically list all Success > Criteria "for manual verification" by the evaluator. It would be hard to > draw a line and say which tool addresses specific Success Criteria without a > more comprehensive set of test cases. Same problem arises for web technology > coverage and other checking aspects. > > The "WCAG 2.0 Test Samples" is intended to be such a test suite: > - http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/ > > (Much of that work was contributed by the EC-funded BenToWeb Project.) > > In parallel, the Auto-WCAG community group is also doing related work on > defining automated "checks" for WCAG 2.0 rather than test cases: > - http://www.w3.org/community/groups/#auto-wcag > > (That work was initiated by another EC-funded project called EIII.) > > Another complimentary approach that we are taking is to describe the > "features" that different tools could provide, which provides a way of > better describing what particular tools can and cannot do: > - http://www.w3.org/TR/WAET/ > > (This was developed with support from the EC-funded WAI-ACT project.) > > So, we have several pieces that we (the community) could build on to develop > that matrix that you are talking about. It would require quite some effort > though. I would be delighted to explore opportunities. > > Best, > Shadi > > > On 9.12.2014 19:25, Phill Jenkins wrote: >> >> My recommendation: >> I recommend a center of competency (e.g. W3C WAI Evaluation & Repair >> Working Group) maintain a matrix like table of contents or >> cross-referenced searchable index to document the current and future >> status for which accessibility test tools on which platforms for each WCAG >> 2.0 Success Criteria. There are at least two approaches to display this >> reference - By WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria: this is what tools are >> available for each Success Criteria by platform and by browser; versus the >> by platform view: this is the set of platforms and browsers an enterprise >> may have already established, what is the status of accessibility tools? >> >> A screen reader is just one tool set but covers a major set of the 38 >> Level A and Double AA Success Criteria. The automated checker tool(s) is >> a second set of tools. Color Contrast Analyzers and other browser toolbar >> plug-ins are a third set of tools and often only cover a single or smaller >> set of Success Criteria. >> >> Context: Often we accessibility practitioners get engaged about the >> question: "what is the standard set of tools we should use to validate >> accessibility?" and we get engaged to deliver courses that include >> training on tools for designers, developers, and testers. How can the >> enterprise be enables? The budget for tools and training is often a >> strong consideration in establishing the "standard tool set". The browser >> and platform standards at an organization is another strong consideration >> for establishing the standard tool set, e.g. we hear a government agency >> say: "but we have to test on IE 9, our standard desktop browser", or the >> bank will say, "it has to run on Firefox ESR", etc. The other strong >> consideration is the chosen standard set of platforms; iOS 8, Android 5.0, >> Windows 7, ChromeOS 40, etc. >> >> Note: I am NOT talking about the accessibility capital S Standard - based >> on WCAG 2.0, but I'm talking about the lower case standard set of >> browser, platforms and tools that an enterprise or project standardizes on >> . . . >> >> The WCAG working group alluded to this as the "accessibility supported" >> discussion: >> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-accessibility-support-head >> >> Examples: >> Some organizations and tool vendors explain how to use various tools, but >> only includes some of the tools that have been decided upon to be >> standardize on based on some set of browsers and platform assumptions. As >> new browsers and platforms are now no longer "emerging", but somewhat >> established with various levels of ARIA support for example; what is the >> current status and possibility for standardizing on them? I believe this >> "research and documentation" should be a responsibility of WAI, just like >> the implementation techniques are documented - agreement? >> >> I need a reference to review if any of these screen readers are possible >> for establishing a "standard set" for accessibility verification test >> (AVT) - and of course why and why not? >> NVDA on Windows 7 with IE browser? >> ChromeVox on Windows 7 with the Chrome browser? >> ChromeVox on MacOS with the Chrome browser - or should Safari >> with >> VoiceOver be the standard, does it matter, why? >> Talkback on Android 5.0 with the _________ browser? >> >> We can't test on every tool, every platform, and every browser >> combination, so which set is the "best set" for a project's standard set? >> We need references documented. We need to know what is being worked on >> and which tools are being researched? >> >> There is a great set of questions and criteria with which to make >> decisions, but there is no summarized referenced data by tool - we need >> the "answers" too. >> see http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/selectingtools.html >> >> So when Jen and others ask the question: which tools? we can point them >> to a resource just like we can point developers to the techniques >> resources. >> >> The list of tools at http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/index.html needs to >> cross-indexed by platform, by Success Criteria, by browser, and by content >> technology to be more useful. >> ____________________________________________ >> Regards, >> Phill Jenkins, >> IBM Accessibility >> http://www.ibm.com/able >> http://www.facebook.com/IBMAccessibility >> http://twitter.com/IBMAccess >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/philljenkins >> >> >> >> From: Mike Elledge <melledge@yahoo.com> >> To: Jens Oliver Meiert <jens@meiert.com>, W3C WAI IG >> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> >> Date: 12/09/2014 09:33 AM >> Subject: Re: Fwd: Accessibility tools >> >> >> >> Hi Jens (all)-- >> >> I use different tools depending on the browser (most common shown by *): >> IE: *Web Accessibility Toolbar, *WAVE >> Firefox: FAE, Web Developer Toolbar, WAVE, Juicy Studio Accessibility >> plug-ins >> Chrome: Web Developer Toolbar >> Screenreaders: *JAWS, NVDA, VoiceOver and ChromeVox >> >> Hope that helps! >> >> Mike >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 10:10 AM, Jens Oliver Meiert >> <jens@meiert.com> wrote: >> >> >> Forwarding per suggestion from Andrew?cheers! >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Jens Oliver Meiert <jens@meiert.com> >> Date: Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:46 PM >> Subject: Accessibility tools >> To: W3C WAI GL <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >> >> >> An informal question, what accessibility tools do people here trust >> most these days? >> >> I?m reviewing the accessibility section of UITest.com and am not sure >> it?s up-to-date. >> >> (Direct feedback okay if you happen to run any tools you like to see >> listed there, or if you have any general feedback.) >> >> -- >> Jens Oliver Meiert >> http://meiert.com/en/ >> >> >> > > -- > Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/ > Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office > Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG) > Research and Development Working Group (RDWG) > -- Karl Groves www.karlgroves.com @karlgroves http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves Phone: +1 410.541.6829 Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks www.tenon.io
Received on Tuesday, 9 December 2014 22:25:21 UTC