Re: ARIA role restrictictions in HTML5

Thanks, that makes sense.
 
I simply want to make sure that, if I build something that is fully accessible and standards compliant, that it will remain so in the future.

This is likely a shared concern by all other developers.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Faulkner 
  To: Bryan Garaventa 
  Cc: David Ashleydale ; Jonathan Avila ; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org 
  Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:42 AM
  Subject: Re: ARIA role restrictictions in HTML5


  Hi Bryan, 

  ARIA is implemented in browsers, once implemented features are very rarely removed.

  The hope is that with the addition of new native HTML controls in HTML5, developers will use these instead of rolling their own, but from experience we know that even basic controls such as buttons that have been around since HTML 2.0 are still not used in some circumstances (For example the Gmail UI contains  literally hundreds of controls but the vast majority are built from divs and spans with ARIA added).

  So while it is obviously better that native controls are used as they have role,state, property information built in as well as keyboard interaction, this is often not the case. 

  Also it should be noted that HTML5 fills in some of the gaps, but does not fill in all of the gaps and that will be the case for the forseeable future.

  I wrote this a few years ago (needs updating), but it is still the case: HTML5 and the myth of WAI-ARIA redundance http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2010/04/html5-and-the-myth-of-wai-aria-redundance/


  with regards

  --
  SteveF
  HTML 5.1




  On 20 March 2013 19:29, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:

    My concern is that ARIA works well right now when properly implemented.

    Many others have thought the same, and have implemented  ARIA within web applications across the web, not just on single page implementations, but have built ARIA support into CMSs as well. 

    In short, ARIA is now entrenched in the web, and it will likely never leave it regardless what the standards are.

      So it would be good to know whether ARIA recognition will ever be pulled out of browser and Assistive Technology support, sort of like pulling out the rug from all of these implementations, making previously accessible components suddenly inaccessible?

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: David Ashleydale 
      To: Bryan Garaventa 
      Cc: Jonathan Avila ; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org 
      Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:07 PM
      Subject: Re: ARIA role restrictictions in HTML5


      It's funny -- I always thought that ARIA would be kind of a preview for HTML 5. That the ARIA attributes would become part of the HTML spec.  


      But it doesn't seem to be turning out like that. 


      David

      On Wednesday, March 20, 2013, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

        I agree, anchor elements work well for this purpose, especially for graceful degradation with radio buttons.

        Regarding buttons, I often see A tags styled as buttons for form submission elements.

        Not having the ability to put role="button" on such elements to aid screen reader interaction, would impair accessibility, not enhance it. The same is true for Toggle Buttons, and Checkboxes.

        A tags are also used for Listbox Option elements, which is also used to support graceful degradation.

        This brings me to a question I've been wondering about. 

        Is HTML5 supposed to replace ARIA, or will they work together? In other words, will components built using current standards compliant ARIA still be valid ten or twenty years from now?


          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Jonathan Avila 
          To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org 
          Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:25 AM
          Subject: ARIA role restrictictions in HTML5


          I was looking at the latest draft version of the HTML5 specification and noticed in the implicit aria semantics table it indicates that only a limited set of ARIA roles can be used with certain elements such as the anchor element to conform to the HTML5 specification.  Specifically you could not use a role of button, radio button, etc. on anchor elements.    This seems problematic but makes good semantic sense.  One advantage of using anchors with hrefs for diverse ARIA roles is there is some progressive enhancement support.  



          http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics



          Jonathan