Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

that is the issue, and how does the W3C-WAI deal with this, the 
governments can force the issue if they have the will, companies can be 
forced (via legal action) desire to serve the customers or out of a moral 
obligation.  (to follow the logic, many countries do require curb cuts and 
force the issue)

making it as easy and seamless as possible is our mission.

Bob

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 22:35:52 +0100
> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>
> To: accessys@smart.net, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Cc: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>,
>     "[iso-8859-1] Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>,
>     Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
> 
> So ask builders (document creators) to use their concrete (PDF) and create curbs (documents) that are accessible... Don't pay builders who don't. The builder (document author) may have to get the right tools to be able to produce accessible curbs (documents).
>
> Are we ready to ask/force document creators to create their documents in an accessible fashion? Last time I checked most users were neither willing nor required nor instructed to use something as basic as style sheets (whether they use Word, OpenOffice or InDesign).
>
> Olaf
>
> Am 1 Mar 2013 um 21:58 schrieb accessys@smart.net:
>
>>
>> example,  there are curbs (kerbs) all over the world, does one blame the builder or the one who maintains them or rebuilds them. a person in a wheelchair usually doesn't care if the curb cut is concrete or Asphalt or wood just as long as it is usable. and usable by all wheelchairs. what if a curb cut were built with a wheel spacing that only works with a single brand of wheelchairs. does that make sense??
>>
>> same concept, don't care what is used to make it accessible as long as it is accessible to all platforms. and yes it is a process, making old stuff accessible is work but we should try to find easier ways, making something new inaccessible, there is no excuse.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:44:59 +0100
>>> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>
>>> To: accessys@smart.net, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>>> Cc: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>,
>>>    "[iso-8859-1] Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>,
>>>    Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>>> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
>>> Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 20:46:10 +0000
>>> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>> So - whom to blame?
>>>
>>> Blame PDF for the fact that documents on paper exist?
>>>
>>> Do you realize that it is because of technology that it becomes feasible in the first place to make paper more accessible than it used to be virtually  more or less forever before?
>>>
>>> I agree to the goal - move in a direction where access becomes universal, but to blame PDF (or any other format or technology for that purpose) that paper documents exist (which by definition are not, and never have been, accessible to certain groups of users) is ... well ... interesting.
>>>
>>> Next you ask to destroy all printing presses, laser and inkjet printers and photocopying machines, because they even create more documents in an accessible format (that is, on paper)?
>>>
>>> Paper is also bad, isn't it?
>>>
>>> Olaf
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 1 Mar 2013 um 20:45 schrieb accessys@smart.net:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> scanned paper documents without tags or other access features to allow them to be used by all is missing the goal.  I am not saying anything is better than the other as long as they can be used by all.
>>>>
>>>> universal access is the goal.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 18:33:30 +0100
>>>>> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>
>>>>> To: accessys@smart.net, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>>>>> Cc: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>,
>>>>>   "[iso-8859-1] Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>,
>>>>>   Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>> you are moving the target a bit too quickly for my taste. A few minutes ago you scolded PDF for being a cheap electronic print out mechanism, now you bring scanned PDFs into the game.
>>>>>
>>>>> So are you implying, HTML (or some other format) is a better format for scanned paper documents?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Olaf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 1 Mar 2013 um 18:15 schrieb accessys@smart.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree pdf has made great strides but getting archivist especially to tag the documents they scan is getting harderd and harder it seems
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>