Re: Current suggestion for subheading isn't accessible

hi denis,

its simple enough for  the p and h1 to be programmatically in the browser
associated even when the header contains other stuff: for example

in the following the heading and subheading can be isolated from the other
paragraph in the header using CSS (before anyone says 'but you can't rely
on CSS for semantics - I am using it as an example of logic already
available in the browser.

likewise the relationships can be mapped via properties in accessibility
APIs

<header>
<h1>Main heading information</h1>
 <p role="subheading">Subheading information</p>
<p>author name</p>
</header>

Otherwise, it feels diluted to me.
>

So the question I ask is diluted to who? what we are trying to achieve is
conveying useful information to the user. Which can be achieved without the
need for a specific wrapper.


--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 7 May 2013 21:13, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com> wrote:

> But that hardly seems perfect (is anything ever?).
>
> If your header only contained your heading and tagline that'd be great (in
> which case it'd be a lot like hgroup), but you'll also get other things in
> there, most of the time.
>
> I would feel much better knowing these two pieces that are meant to go
> together were actually contained in the same wrapper, whatever that wrapper
> is - hence the first proposal with the tagline being a part of the h1.
>
> Otherwise, it feels diluted to me.
>
> /Denis
>
>
>
>
> On 2013-05-07, at 3:51 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> my preferred approach would be:
>
> <header>
> <h1>Main heading information</h1>
> <p role="subheading">Subheading information</p>
> </header>
>
> as it would cover more of the use cases
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 7 May 2013 19:01, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com>wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Aaahhh. got it for aria. Makes perfect sense, thanks. That actually helps
>> a lot.
>>
>> So, my take would be that your prefered approach would be one of the
>> following then?
>>
>> <header>
>> <h1>Main heading information</h1>
>> <p role="subheading">Suheading information</p>
>> </header>
>>
>> <header>
>> <h1>Main heading information
>> <div role="subheading">Suheading information</div>
>>  </h1>
>> </header>
>>
>> /Denis
>>
>>
>> On 2013-05-07, at 11:54 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Denis,
>>
>> the APis that provide roles for HTML elements do not have any subheading
>> semantic defined (as stated previously)
>>
>> many of the the new structural elements in HTML do not have API roles
>> defined.
>>
>> In these cases ARIA role are being used (example <header>= banner) and
>> then these roles are exposed as properties in the APIs
>>
>> i.e. a good method to develop a role that is not already defined is via
>> ARIA.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2013 16:43, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi again,
>>>
>>> On 2013-05-07, at 11:35 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > probably a good place to start would be in ARIA you can suggest it on
>>> the wai-xtech mailing list
>>>
>>> I'm confused.
>>>
>>> On the one hand, I see people creating (or wanting to create) solutions
>>> based on aria all the time but on the other hand, I see people advocating
>>> to use native html whenever native html is available.
>>>
>>> If we know and agree to the fact that we should always prioritize native
>>> html elements whenever we can, then why not create something that adresses
>>> this problem in html5 directly, rather than push it on the aria side of the
>>> fence?
>>>
>>> /Denis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>