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RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

From: Greg Davies <GDavies@jackhenry.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:06:25 +0000
To: "tink@tink.co.uk" <tink@tink.co.uk>, 'Jonathan Avila' <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, 'Bryan Garaventa' <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <003F4D80BD2ADD459453D5115E53F0B101630180@MMOEX10MBS03.jhacorp.com>
The problem exists in JAWS and IE at this time.  We have tested the specifics with NVDA and Windows-Eyes and both do not exhibit the same behavior as JAWS.  Both IE8 and IE9 exhibit the problem, we have not tested with IE10.  We have tested with Firefox and JAWS and that seems to work well.

The problem is not the code, that we can tell.  We have gone back to a baseline code base and the problem still exists where we know it had not been before we started this accessibility project.  And no, we cannot share the code as this is a complicated banking application with connections to AS400's.  Opening a web site would also not be possible.  Anyway, we do not think the problem is in the code when you can force a refresh of the virtual buffer through the keyboard and everything is back to normal.

-----Original Message-----
From: Léonie Watson [mailto:tink@tink.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:15 AM
To: Greg Davies; 'Jonathan Avila'; 'Bryan Garaventa'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

Greg Davies wrote:
"Focus is set with the Tab key.  The screen reader reads the contents of the control correctly, it just announces the control incorrectly.  It announces every control as a combobox regardless if it is actually an inputbox or anything else."

Is this happening in all screen readers that utilise a virtual buffer and/or all versions of that screen reader? Do other screen readers behave as expected when the DOM updates?

Sorry for all the questions, but one last one - can you share the code and/or make an example page available to test?

Léonie.

	

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Davies [mailto:GDavies@jackhenry.com]
Sent: 25 April 2013 17:00
To: Jonathan Avila; Bryan Garaventa; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

Focus is set with the Tab key.  The screen reader reads the contents of the control correctly, it just announces the control incorrectly.  It announces every control as a combobox regardless if it is actually an inputbox or anything else.

Greg Davies

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:47 AM
To: Greg Davies; Bryan Garaventa; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

> The problem is the screen reader "thinks" the control the content is 
> in
is something other than what it actually is.

It sounds like a focus issue.  I assume you are setting focus using the JavaScript focus() method.  What can happen though is a timing issue.  I have found that creative use of setTimeout with JavaScript a focus() method call can "wake up" assistive technology in situations where it
thinks the focus is in the wrong place.    Sometimes waiting a few
milliseconds before shifting focus may be need in cases where the screen reader is refreshing it's view of the DOM.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Davies [mailto:GDavies@jackhenry.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:50 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa; Jonathan Avila; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

The original content is changed, no problem there and the screen reader can see the content and announces it.  The problem is the screen reader "thinks"
the control the content is in is something other than what it actually is.
More specifically, an asp:dropdownlist is the control that initially is changed by the user.  This change triggers a postback to get additional content, but that content is not displayed on the screen only held in the background for a popup window.  The next control on the screen is an asp:textbox.  Its contents has not changed.  When the user tabs to that textbox control, the screen reader announces the control as a combobox, the same control name as the dropdownlist, and does the same for every control on the page regardless of the actual control type.
Executing an ins+esc key combo from the keyboard causes the screen reader to reread the page and everything is fine with the world.  I want to be able to initiate that page reread from the program either using aria commands or javascript.  I have tried various hacks but they do not seem to work reliably.  Aria-live has gotten us to this point.  Without Aria-live, the screen reader announces the control labels just as it does the control, with the same name regardless of the actual label on the control.

Greg Davies

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:46 PM
To: Greg Davies; Jonathan Avila; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Virtual Buffer Refresh

I'm not sure I understand the problem, is it that the right content isn't being announced, or that the new content isn't appearing in the Virtual Buffer after it's added to the DOM? Both have different fixes. ARIA works on the first, but not the second.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Davies" <GDavies@jackhenry.com>
To: "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh


Unfortunately I have already tried using the role="region"
aria-live="polite" and even added aria-atomic="true" with only limited success.  The issue I am having is once the postback is complete, the screen reader announces every subsequent input type as the same type as the control that changed originally to effect the postback.  If I do a "hard" refresh of the buffer from the keyboard (ins+esc) everything is fine.  I was hoping there was some way I could do a hard refresh using javascript or some combination of aria tags.

Greg Davies

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 2:14 PM
To: Greg Davies; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Virtual Buffer Refresh

> Does anyone have a way of refreshing the virtual buffer through either
ARIA tags, or javascript.  I can force a refresh

Use of aria-live regions or certain roles that are implicit live regions should work with ARIA supported assistive technologies and browsers.
Freedom Scientific also produced a tech support notice many years ago that listed many possible techniques.

Some of the techniques are listed on webAccessibility.com and include changing values in hidden input fields, removing and adding nodes in the DOM, and changing attributes on elements.

https://www.webaccessibility.com/best_practices.php?best_practice_id=968

Adding and removing nodes in the DOM is likely the best method.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Davies [mailto:GDavies@jackhenry.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 2:56 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Virtual Buffer Refresh

Everyone,

Does anyone have a way of refreshing the virtual buffer through either ARIA tags, or javascript.  I can force a refresh from the keyboard and that clears up the problem  but I have not been able to force a refresh through code.  I have tried aria-live but that solution is only partially successful.  Thank you in advance.

Greg Davies
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Received on Thursday, 25 April 2013 17:06:58 UTC

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