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Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

From: Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:59:42 +0100
Message-ID: <CAC5+KCF_xb+PPwt8z+3nGO=LuoKywTsxiG9s+9G24=kheiH2gg@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Cc: WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
I haven't tried it, but there is at least one company that does
intermediate hardware that allows keyboard, joystick and switch access to
the iPad:
http://www.inclusive.co.uk/simplyworks-for-ipad-p6081


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:52 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman <
poehlman1@comcast.net> wrote:

> This is quite interesting since apple's io interface is so closely guarded.
>
> I still cannot create gestures using the hardware keyboard.  all I find in
> the gesture area is numbers which do nothing when I attempt to employ them.
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Why wouldn't I just employ the assistive touch menu directly from the
> screen which I can do easily enough?
>
> I've heard some people are using VoiceOver to access an iOS device via
> their wheelchair's joystick and accompanying software such as iPortal.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:39 PM
> To: Jonathan Avila
> Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> How do I create gestures with the keyboard?  Why wouldn't I just employ
> the assistive touch menu directly from the screen which I can do easily
> enough?
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ø  Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not
> running?
> Yes, most commands are not available without VoiceOver.  You can’t control
> iOS with the keyboard alone without VoiceOver.
>
> Ø  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard user?
> You can create custom multi-point gestures and then activate them for
> later use on different areas of the screen.
>
> Jonathan
>
> From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:34 AM
> To: Jonathan Avila
> Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not
> running?  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard
> user?
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> touching the internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At a time
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ø  On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is,
> I don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard
> to manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is
> available though.
> A lot of people with motor disabilities end up using VoiceOver as the
> keyboard support on iOS is not great without VoiceOver running.  I assume
> that there could be some gestures that might be better performed with
> assistive touch than with VoiceOver – thus the need to have this icon
> accessible.
>
> My recommendation is that there be some sort of global keystroke or that
> somehow Apple place access to this icon from the status bar similar to how
> the notifications shade can be pulled down from the status bar.  The
> location of the assistive touch icon is really not relevant to the
> functionality – it simply can be moved around to prevent it from obscuring
> other items on the screen.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:19 AM
> To: Jonathan Avila
> Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is, I
> don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard to
> manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is available
> though.
>
> What would your recommended solution to this "kludge" be since the
> assistive touch menu is a screen edge icon that does not act like any
> other icon on the home page?
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> touching the internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At a time
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> It appears the default location for assistive touch is on the status bar
> in the middle directly above the time.  Thus, if you perform the command
> sequence discussed when the assistive touch icon is in that location it
> will “happen” to work.
>
> With the icon located above the time and with a Bluetooth keyboard:
> Press control+option+m to get to the status bar Press right arrow to move
> over to the time Press control+option+space to activate the assistive
> touch icon Press control+option+space to activate the assistive touch menu
> Press left or right arrows to view assistive touch choices
>
> This is definitely a kludge but could be used.
>
> Jonathan
>
> From: Brian Cragun [mailto:cragun@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:49 PM
> To: David Hilbert Poehlman
> Cc: Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> Hi David,
>
> Thanks so much for your reply.  I have tried in vain to verify the
> keystrokes you documented.   I can get to the status bar and put focus on
> the battery status, but control+option+Space does not move focus to the
> Assistive Touch button.    Doesn't matter if QuickNav is on or off.
>
> I agree it would be a fantastic find, but unfortunately, I can't verify
> it.   Can you please double check if there is any other aspect of your
> testing that may be different than mine?
>
> I am using an iPad 3,1 with 6.1.3 and an Apple Bluetooth wireless
> keyboard.
>
>
> Brian Cragun
> IBM Master Inventor
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
>
>
>
>
> From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS,
> Cc:        Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa
> <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/15/2013 06:52 PM
> Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
>
>
> Hi Brian C,
>
> To get to the assistive touch menu using the hardware keyboard, press
> control-option-m to bring focus to the status bar and then press control
> option-space while focused on the battery status.  this will focus on the
> assistive touch menu.  press control-option space to activate it and then
> you can maneuver around it as expected.
> This is a good and important find.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> touching the internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At a time
>
> On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> I did a little more checking and I don't actually find hardware keyboard
> and Assistive touch are mutually exclusive.  When I have Assistive Touch
> enabled, and then add the keyboard (via Bluetooth pairing) and then
> activate Voiceover, the Assitive Touch remains active.  It responds to
> button presses via touch gesture.   When the Assistive Touch menu is
> displayed, I can navigate using the keyboard and select any action.
>
> The only thing I can't do is get focus to the Assistive Touch  icon.  The
> keyboard navigation ring just skips over it.  But if I tap it once to give
> it focus, I can use the keyboard commands to open it and use the
> subsequent menus.
>
> Brian Cragun
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
> www.ibm.com/able
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> To:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>,
> Cc:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, Alastair Campbell
> <alastc@gmail.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/08/2013 03:22 PM
> Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
>
>
> Assistive touch and hardware keyboard are mutually exclusive.  sadly,
> assistive touch is not toggled on by the removal of the keyboard, but is
> removed by its addition.
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> touching the internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At a time
>
> On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:04 PM, "Bryan Garaventa"
> <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I'm not aware of the keyboard accessibility of the assistive
> touch feature, but I can't find any documentation on the web that suggests
> it is keyboard accessible. Hopefully others here can share more info on
> it.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Cragun
> To: Bryan Garaventa
> Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> I think it was user error on my part.  :-)  A little more testing showed
> that the "bounce back" occurs on the time slider when the  horizontal
> slider has engaged more than 20%.  In that case, the time slide button is
> not visible, and for some reason this causes it to not retain focus.  When
> I set the horizontal slider to 0%, the time slider works with the gesture,
> or with the keyboard after selecting the link.
>
> Wireless keyboards.   We're requiring teams that develop mobile apps to
> test both gesture access and keyboard access using a paired wireless
> keyboard.  This is to meet the standards criteria, which still require
> keyboard access, and we think the Soft keyboard on iOS not sufficient for
> the standard, as we understand it.   Keyboards could benefit navigation by
> the blind (although most blind people I know prefer gestures) but also
> those with mobility impairment.  I don't have a switch to test with, but
> paired keyboard access would be a good indicator of  access without
> gesture.
>
> BTW.  The only iOS native element I have not been able to access with the
> keyboard, so far, is the assistive touch icon.  Any ideas?
>
> Brian Cragun
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
> To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS,
> Cc:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>, "WAI Interest Group"
> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/08/2013 01:57 PM
> Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
>
>
> A wireless bluetooth combination, I hadn't thought of that. The hidden
> link is provided as a fallback for users with screen readers that don't
> support the use of ARIA, but if a keyboard is being used, it should be
> possible to set focus to the slider itself, since it is already programmed
> to be keyboard accessible, then the arrow keys would move the slider? Then
> again, I seem to remember that the arrow keys on Voiceover move focus
> instead of passing this through to the control.
>
> I'm not sure why the time slider would bounce focus. It literally uses the
> same setup script as the first slider, the only difference is the CSS
> which makes it a vertical slider instead of a horizontal one, and
> aria-orientation="vertical" is set on the slider.
>
> I tried this using the gestures and didn't have a bounce effect. Which
> mode of navigation does this happen on? Also, it's important to move the
> first slider to 0% before trying the Time slider, because the image that
> opens will obscure the second slider.
>
>
> The Time slider also has a hidden link fallback that opens a standard
> select as well, which is intrinsically bound to the slider.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Cragun
> To: Bryan Garaventa
> Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> Bryan, that is a fantastic gesture to learn!  Works great for gesture
> interaction.  Is there a corresponding bluetooth wireless keyboard key
> combination to interact with the slider?
> The only thing I can find is to "select" the slider bar brings up a popup
> button to set the value.
>
> Also, any idea why on this demo when I navigate to the "time" slider, the
> page resets and the focus goes to the top of page?
>
> Brian Cragun
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
>
>
>
>
> From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
> To:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>,
> Cc:        "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/08/2013 11:31 AM
> Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
>
>
> This would be the page at
> http://whatsock.com/modules/aria_slider_module/demo.htm
>
> Voiceover incorrectly says that you should swipe up and down with one
> finger to adjust the slider, but David gave the correct sequence earlier,
> which is to double tap and hold with one finger, wait for the pass-through
> sound, then slide your finger in the direction you want to drag the
> slider.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alastair Campbell
> To: Bryan Garaventa
> Cc: WAI Interest Group
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> I couldn't get anything to 'slide' in iOS, with or without VoiceOver, I
> just used the buttons.
>
> Perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes, which page do you mean?
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Bryan Garaventa
> <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:
> The issue is that I can't get Voiceover to grab the slide, then move it.
> If there is a gesture sequence for this though, I definitely want to learn
> it.
>
> The carousels are fine in Voiceover, I worked on these a while ago. For
> some reason Voiceover on iOS isn't paying attention to aria-hidden="true"
> when included within a button element. That's a bout it though.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alastair Campbell
> To: Bryan Garaventa
> Cc: WAI Interest Group
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 5:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
>
> > Now, if only I could fix the ARIA Sliders that easily.
>
> What was the issue there? I tried the carousel and slidershow, they seemed
> ok. Could adjust the ordering a little to make it easier to understand
> (and don't rely on having an esc key), but it seemed ok.
>
> -Alastair
>
>
Received on Thursday, 18 April 2013 11:00:12 UTC

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