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Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

From: David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:38:45 -0400
Cc: Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com>, Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-Id: <0B725563-A162-4708-9A32-34EF37C5CE48@comcast.net>
To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
How do I create gestures with the keyboard?  Why wouldn't I just employ the assistive touch menu directly from the screen which I can do easily enough?

On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

Ø  Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not running?  
Yes, most commands are not available without VoiceOver.  You can’t control iOS with the keyboard alone without VoiceOver.
 
Ø  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard user?
You can create custom multi-point gestures and then activate them for later use on different areas of the screen.
 
Jonathan
 
From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
 
Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not running?  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard user?
 
-- 
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

Ø  On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is, I don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard to manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is available though.
A lot of people with motor disabilities end up using VoiceOver as the keyboard support on iOS is not great without VoiceOver running.  I assume that there could be some gestures that might be better performed with assistive touch than with VoiceOver – thus the need to have this icon accessible.
 
My recommendation is that there be some sort of global keystroke or that somehow Apple place access to this icon from the status bar similar to how the notifications shade can be pulled down from the status bar.  The location of the assistive touch icon is really not relevant to the functionality – it simply can be moved around to prevent it from obscuring other items on the screen.
 
Jonathan
 
 
From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:19 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
 
On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is, I don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard to manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is available though.
 
What would your recommended solution to this "kludge" be since the assistive touch menu is a screen edge icon that does not act like any other icon on the home page?
 
-- 
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 17, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

It appears the default location for assistive touch is on the status bar in the middle directly above the time.  Thus, if you perform the command sequence discussed when the assistive touch icon is in that location it will “happen” to work.
 
With the icon located above the time and with a Bluetooth keyboard:
Press control+option+m to get to the status bar
Press right arrow to move over to the time
Press control+option+space to activate the assistive touch icon
Press control+option+space to activate the assistive touch menu
Press left or right arrows to view assistive touch choices
 
This is definitely a kludge but could be used.
 
Jonathan
 
From: Brian Cragun [mailto:cragun@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:49 PM
To: David Hilbert Poehlman
Cc: Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript
 
Hi David, 

Thanks so much for your reply.  I have tried in vain to verify the keystrokes you documented.   I can get to the status bar and put focus on the battery status, but control+option+Space does not move focus to the Assistive Touch button.    Doesn't matter if QuickNav is on or off. 

I agree it would be a fantastic find, but unfortunately, I can't verify it.   Can you please double check if there is any other aspect of your testing that may be different than mine? 

I am using an iPad 3,1 with 6.1.3 and an Apple Bluetooth wireless keyboard. 


Brian Cragun 
IBM Master Inventor 
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center




From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net> 
To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:        Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Date:        04/15/2013 06:52 PM 
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



Hi Brian C, 

To get to the assistive touch menu using the hardware keyboard, press control-option-m to bring focus to the status bar and then press control option-space while focused on the battery status.  this will focus on the assistive touch menu.  press control-option space to activate it and then you can maneuver around it as expected. 
This is a good and important find. 

Thanks. 

-- 
Jonnie Appleseed 
With His 
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s 
touching the internet 
Reducing Technology's disabilities 
One Byte At a time 

On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com> wrote:

Hi David, 

I did a little more checking and I don't actually find hardware keyboard and Assistive touch are mutually exclusive.  When I have Assistive Touch enabled, and then add the keyboard (via Bluetooth pairing) and then activate Voiceover, the Assitive Touch remains active.  It responds to button presses via touch gesture.   When the Assistive Touch menu is displayed, I can navigate using the keyboard and select any action. 

The only thing I can't do is get focus to the Assistive Touch  icon.  The keyboard navigation ring just skips over it.  But if I tap it once to give it focus, I can use the keyboard commands to open it and use the subsequent menus. 

Brian Cragun 
IBM AbilityLab Consultant 
Human Ability & Accessibility Center
www.ibm.com/able 





From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net> 
To:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, 
Cc:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Date:        04/08/2013 03:22 PM 
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



Assistive touch and hardware keyboard are mutually exclusive.  sadly, assistive touch is not toggled on by the removal of the keyboard, but is removed by its addition. 
-- 
Jonnie Appleseed 
With His 
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s 
touching the internet 
Reducing Technology's disabilities 
One Byte At a time 

On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:04 PM, "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:

Unfortunately I'm not aware of the keyboard accessibility of the assistive touch feature, but I can't find any documentation on the web that suggests it is keyboard accessible. Hopefully others here can share more info on it. 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Brian Cragun 
To: Bryan Garaventa 
Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group 
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:31 PM 
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript 

Hi Bryan, 

I think it was user error on my part.  :-)  A little more testing showed that the "bounce back" occurs on the time slider when the  horizontal slider has engaged more than 20%.  In that case, the time slide button is not visible, and for some reason this causes it to not retain focus.  When I set the horizontal slider to 0%, the time slider works with the gesture, or with the keyboard after selecting the link. 

Wireless keyboards.   We're requiring teams that develop mobile apps to test both gesture access and keyboard access using a paired wireless keyboard.  This is to meet the standards criteria, which still require keyboard access, and we think the Soft keyboard on iOS not sufficient for the standard, as we understand it.   Keyboards could benefit navigation by the blind (although most blind people I know prefer gestures) but also those with mobility impairment.  I don't have a switch to test with, but paired keyboard access would be a good indicator of  access without gesture. 

BTW.  The only iOS native element I have not been able to access with the keyboard, so far, is the assistive touch icon.  Any ideas? 

Brian Cragun 
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center





From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> 
To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>, "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Date:        04/08/2013 01:57 PM 
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



A wireless bluetooth combination, I hadn't thought of that. The hidden link is provided as a fallback for users with screen readers that don't support the use of ARIA, but if a keyboard is being used, it should be possible to set focus to the slider itself, since it is already programmed to be keyboard accessible, then the arrow keys would move the slider? Then again, I seem to remember that the arrow keys on Voiceover move focus instead of passing this through to the control. 

I'm not sure why the time slider would bounce focus. It literally uses the same setup script as the first slider, the only difference is the CSS which makes it a vertical slider instead of a horizontal one, and aria-orientation="vertical" is set on the slider. 

I tried this using the gestures and didn't have a bounce effect. Which mode of navigation does this happen on? Also, it's important to move the first slider to 0% before trying the Time slider, because the image that opens will obscure the second slider. 

The Time slider also has a hidden link fallback that opens a standard select as well, which is intrinsically bound to the slider. 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: Brian Cragun 
To: Bryan Garaventa 
Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group 
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:01 AM 
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript 

Bryan, that is a fantastic gesture to learn!  Works great for gesture interaction.  Is there a corresponding bluetooth wireless keyboard key combination to interact with the slider? 
The only thing I can find is to "select" the slider bar brings up a popup button to set the value. 

Also, any idea why on this demo when I navigate to the "time" slider, the page resets and the focus goes to the top of page? 

Brian Cragun 
IBM AbilityLab Consultant




From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> 
To:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>, 
Cc:        "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Date:        04/08/2013 11:31 AM 
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



This would be the page at 
http://whatsock.com/modules/aria_slider_module/demo.htm 

Voiceover incorrectly says that you should swipe up and down with one finger to adjust the slider, but David gave the correct sequence earlier, which is to double tap and hold with one finger, wait for the pass-through sound, then slide your finger in the direction you want to drag the slider. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alastair Campbell 
To: Bryan Garaventa 
Cc: WAI Interest Group 
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:42 AM 
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript 

I couldn't get anything to 'slide' in iOS, with or without VoiceOver, I just used the buttons. 

Perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes, which page do you mean? 


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote: 
The issue is that I can't get Voiceover to grab the slide, then move it. If there is a gesture sequence for this though, I definitely want to learn it. 

The carousels are fine in Voiceover, I worked on these a while ago. For some reason Voiceover on iOS isn't paying attention to aria-hidden="true" when included within a button element. That's a bout it though. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alastair Campbell 
To: Bryan Garaventa 
Cc: WAI Interest Group 
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 5:16 AM 
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript 

> Now, if only I could fix the ARIA Sliders that easily. 

What was the issue there? I tried the carousel and slidershow, they seemed ok. Could adjust the ordering a little to make it easier to understand (and don't rely on having an esc key), but it seemed ok. 

-Alastair
Received on Wednesday, 17 April 2013 18:39:12 UTC

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